1
00:00:16,030 --> 00:00:19,349
[Music]

2
00:00:30,930 --> 00:00:21,240
so

3
00:00:34,549 --> 00:00:32,630
[Music]

4
00:00:37,510 --> 00:00:34,559
welcome back to paranormal now i'm your

5
00:00:40,630 --> 00:00:37,520
host alan b smith as we traverse the

6
00:00:41,510 --> 00:00:40,640
paranormal highway of cosmic landmines

7
00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:41,520
and

8
00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:43,680
who knows what else

9
00:00:48,069 --> 00:00:45,680
tonight's guest is none other than carol

10
00:00:49,750 --> 00:00:48,079
carl who is quite infamous on the

11
00:00:52,470 --> 00:00:49,760
inception radio network

12
00:00:53,990 --> 00:00:52,480
she does the ufo headline news there and

13
00:00:55,990 --> 00:00:54,000
she's also been a

14
00:00:57,590 --> 00:00:56,000
host for epic voyages radio and i'm

15
00:00:59,750 --> 00:00:57,600
pretty sure she can correct me later

16
00:01:01,910 --> 00:00:59,760
that she's also um hosted and co-hosted

17
00:01:04,070 --> 00:01:01,920
some of the other shows on inception

18
00:01:05,429 --> 00:01:04,080
radio network as well um so tonight

19
00:01:08,070 --> 00:01:05,439
we're going to be talking about

20
00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:08,080
something extraordinarily interesting

21
00:01:13,670 --> 00:01:10,560
and i mean that truly because the way i

22
00:01:15,429 --> 00:01:13,680
would describe this would be

23
00:01:17,749 --> 00:01:15,439
a haunting story

24
00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:17,759
a paranormal story

25
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:19,840
um a psychic story

26
00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:21,040
that

27
00:01:26,469 --> 00:01:23,200
if sherlock holmes

28
00:01:27,830 --> 00:01:26,479
could have a story a novel that

29
00:01:29,190 --> 00:01:27,840
spanned

30
00:01:31,270 --> 00:01:29,200
over

31
00:01:32,789 --> 00:01:31,280
years or decades

32
00:01:34,469 --> 00:01:32,799
this would be a great

33
00:01:36,469 --> 00:01:34,479
sherlock holmes novel

34
00:01:38,830 --> 00:01:36,479
because the the mystery

35
00:01:41,830 --> 00:01:38,840
is not simply someone had a paranormal

36
00:01:44,710 --> 00:01:41,840
experience we can or cannot explain it

37
00:01:47,429 --> 00:01:44,720
the story behind the fox sisters

38
00:01:48,469 --> 00:01:47,439
continues or has continued for quite

39
00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:48,479
some time

40
00:01:52,310 --> 00:01:51,520
um so carol carl will will dive into

41
00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:52,320
that

42
00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:53,520
world

43
00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:54,720
soon

44
00:01:58,149 --> 00:01:56,560
but as a friendly reminder

45
00:02:00,550 --> 00:01:58,159
you can always listen to the inception

46
00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:00,560
radio network um even if it's not this

47
00:02:05,389 --> 00:02:03,200
podcast any other show on the live

48
00:02:07,350 --> 00:02:05,399
stream broadcast at

49
00:02:10,869 --> 00:02:07,360
inceptionradionetwork.com or you can

50
00:02:13,589 --> 00:02:10,879
listen to it on live 365 stitcher radio

51
00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:13,599
uh nobex radio tune in itunes radio

52
00:02:17,430 --> 00:02:15,440
stream uh shoutcast win app win media

53
00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:17,440
player and quicktime and of course

54
00:02:21,510 --> 00:02:20,000
we replay shows also on

55
00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:21,520
roku

56
00:02:25,670 --> 00:02:24,400
and if you're really really hurting and

57
00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:25,680
you need

58
00:02:30,869 --> 00:02:28,480
an iron fix because you know otherwise

59
00:02:31,670 --> 00:02:30,879
your day just won't be won't be a good

60
00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:31,680
one

61
00:02:35,830 --> 00:02:34,239
uh you can always call 401 from your

62
00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:35,840
cell phone or landline

63
00:02:41,270 --> 00:02:38,400
two eight three four one two eight three

64
00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:41,280
six seven zero zero and you can listen

65
00:02:45,509 --> 00:02:43,040
to the live stream there as well

66
00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:46,390
carol

67
00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:47,920
welcome to paranormal

68
00:02:55,350 --> 00:02:51,840
hello i'm having to stifle mike applause

69
00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:55,360
notorious yeah infamous i guess i am um

70
00:02:59,270 --> 00:02:57,280
yikes and i just love you know the fact

71
00:03:01,830 --> 00:02:59,280
that since you know people listen in

72
00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:01,840
podcast we've got uh paranormal now and

73
00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:05,120
paranormal now later you decide

74
00:03:09,030 --> 00:03:06,720
oh okay

75
00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:09,040
yeah yeah so it's it's uh very cool but

76
00:03:13,750 --> 00:03:10,720
this is the now

77
00:03:15,990 --> 00:03:13,760
yes the fox sisters huh

78
00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:16,000
where to begin um

79
00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:17,120
possibly

80
00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:19,760
the fact that the very geo location is

81
00:03:24,309 --> 00:03:20,720
um

82
00:03:25,390 --> 00:03:24,319
was haunted in a sense uh during the

83
00:03:27,509 --> 00:03:25,400
well from the

84
00:03:30,390 --> 00:03:27,519
1780s on

85
00:03:33,110 --> 00:03:30,400
it was sort of a hot spot for the

86
00:03:35,589 --> 00:03:33,120
development of brand new religions in

87
00:03:38,229 --> 00:03:35,599
fact it became called the burnt over

88
00:03:40,390 --> 00:03:38,239
district because religions would rise so

89
00:03:45,190 --> 00:03:40,400
quickly and spread like wildfire and

90
00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:45,200
then leave depart be unsuccessful and um

91
00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:47,200
some of them one religion that was very

92
00:03:52,710 --> 00:03:49,760
successful came from the nearby area of

93
00:03:53,830 --> 00:03:52,720
palmyra which is the joseph smith mormon

94
00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:53,840
connection

95
00:03:59,190 --> 00:03:56,080
but uh the territory is specifically

96
00:04:00,789 --> 00:03:59,200
wayne county in new york um

97
00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:00,799
it was originally i'm going to read this

98
00:04:05,429 --> 00:04:02,640
uh originally included in lands of

99
00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:05,439
ontario and seneca counties new york it

100
00:04:11,509 --> 00:04:09,120
became a separate county april 11 1823

101
00:04:13,509 --> 00:04:11,519
but the history goes way way back early

102
00:04:15,350 --> 00:04:13,519
native americans

103
00:04:18,469 --> 00:04:15,360
lots of artifacts that seem to date back

104
00:04:20,069 --> 00:04:18,479
as far as 10 000 years ago so it was an

105
00:04:22,950 --> 00:04:20,079
occupied area

106
00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:22,960
ultimately french fur traders jesuit

107
00:04:25,590 --> 00:04:24,320
missionaries

108
00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:25,600
etc

109
00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:28,560
made visits to that area um

110
00:04:33,030 --> 00:04:30,880
yeah the burnt over district

111
00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:33,040
and um

112
00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:35,680
any questions so far did that look good

113
00:04:38,629 --> 00:04:37,440
was that coherent yeah absolutely

114
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:38,639
coherent

115
00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:40,800
okay okay understood

116
00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:42,800
all right well then hopefully all of our

117
00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:44,800
gentle listeners as i refer to them on

118
00:04:48,710 --> 00:04:46,800
the ufo headline news we'll also be

119
00:04:50,710 --> 00:04:48,720
getting this um

120
00:04:52,629 --> 00:04:50,720
it's interesting uh

121
00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:52,639
there is quite an overlap

122
00:04:59,909 --> 00:04:56,400
in terms of marginalization um just

123
00:05:03,110 --> 00:04:59,919
downright mud slinging beast merchant of

124
00:05:04,310 --> 00:05:03,120
ufo followers enthusiasts ufologists

125
00:05:06,469 --> 00:05:04,320
even

126
00:05:08,310 --> 00:05:06,479
and there's a parallel with what

127
00:05:11,990 --> 00:05:08,320
happened to the fox sisters and early

128
00:05:14,710 --> 00:05:12,000
spiritualists um sort of

129
00:05:17,189 --> 00:05:14,720
i i don't want to say it was conspiracy

130
00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:17,199
it was definitely conspiratorial but

131
00:05:22,230 --> 00:05:19,360
there were overt um

132
00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:22,240
qualities it was an attempt to just sort

133
00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:24,880
of undermine and trivialize the entire

134
00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:27,360
thing um so there are parallels in that

135
00:05:32,310 --> 00:05:30,000
from from the then to the now

136
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:32,320
but one of the one of the original

137
00:05:35,909 --> 00:05:34,080
things that i feel compelled to correct

138
00:05:38,550 --> 00:05:35,919
about the fox sisters is

139
00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:38,560
a lot of sites on the internet and i

140
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,560
began looking into this about 15 years

141
00:05:47,110 --> 00:05:43,199
ago maybe 18.

142
00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:47,120
a lot of sites will have misinformation

143
00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:48,880
i won't go as far as to say dis

144
00:05:55,189 --> 00:05:52,880
information but uh the first takeaway i

145
00:05:58,310 --> 00:05:55,199
had of the fox family was that they were

146
00:06:01,590 --> 00:05:58,320
um poor itinerant peppermint farmers who

147
00:06:04,309 --> 00:06:01,600
had sought shelter lodging in this uh

148
00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:04,319
sort of a cabin cottage situation in

149
00:06:08,710 --> 00:06:06,400
hydesville new york well that just

150
00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:08,720
wasn't the case in fact um the eldest

151
00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:11,280
son david was married to elizabeth

152
00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:13,440
culler whose family had definite big

153
00:06:19,029 --> 00:06:16,080
holdings in the area of hydesville um

154
00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:19,039
hydesville new york was settled by henry

155
00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:22,160
hyde and he also it was called the

156
00:06:27,749 --> 00:06:24,880
hydesville cottage because he was the

157
00:06:30,469 --> 00:06:27,759
landowner and and the landlord there um

158
00:06:32,469 --> 00:06:30,479
the fox family maggie and kate who were

159
00:06:35,029 --> 00:06:32,479
13 and 15 and john and margaret their

160
00:06:36,469 --> 00:06:35,039
parents were simply staying there while

161
00:06:37,749 --> 00:06:36,479
their bigger house was being built

162
00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:37,759
nearby

163
00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:40,240
so right out of the gate um

164
00:06:46,309 --> 00:06:43,600
part of the misinformation was that uh

165
00:06:49,029 --> 00:06:46,319
leah the eldest sister uh

166
00:06:51,189 --> 00:06:49,039
somehow was then able to teach piano and

167
00:06:52,950 --> 00:06:51,199
that was a work of work demons something

168
00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:52,960
you know she had summoned up

169
00:06:57,749 --> 00:06:55,120
they were called witches etc

170
00:07:00,150 --> 00:06:57,759
so she wasn't she wasn't formally taught

171
00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:00,160
no she was she was they were educated

172
00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:02,240
and they decided to educate their

173
00:07:08,230 --> 00:07:04,800
daughter in um various you know other

174
00:07:09,909 --> 00:07:08,240
niceties um as was befitting something

175
00:07:10,629 --> 00:07:09,919
else that's a curious thing you'll often

176
00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:10,639
see

177
00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:13,440
leah well this was their entire name ann

178
00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:17,440
leah fox fish brown underhill

179
00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:21,840
yep um well the ann leah fox fish mr

180
00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:23,280
fish i believe his first name was

181
00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:24,240
benjamin

182
00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:26,160
was her first husband

183
00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:28,080
and here's something that's kind of like

184
00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:28,960
a

185
00:07:34,150 --> 00:07:31,680
you know uh in terms of modern concepts

186
00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:34,160
it wasn't unusual for even a well-placed

187
00:07:41,110 --> 00:07:38,080
child daughter to be married very early

188
00:07:43,510 --> 00:07:41,120
and at the age of just past 14 and leah

189
00:07:45,350 --> 00:07:43,520
married benjamin fish who

190
00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:45,360
ultimately after two years and leaving

191
00:07:49,430 --> 00:07:46,960
her with a daughter named lizzie took

192
00:07:52,150 --> 00:07:49,440
off for uh parts unknown legend has it

193
00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:52,160
he ended up in california but who knows

194
00:07:59,990 --> 00:07:57,520
um so here we have at the height of the

195
00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:00,000
coming to public knowledge

196
00:08:06,469 --> 00:08:03,120
fox sister's situation um and leah was

197
00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:06,479
24 uh and had a ten-year-old daughter

198
00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:08,000
so it's very it's interesting because

199
00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:11,360
her youngest sister kate was i'm sorry

200
00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:14,800
maggie was 13 at that point so

201
00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:15,680
um

202
00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:18,400
yeah that was an interesting contrast

203
00:08:22,469 --> 00:08:20,479
and it's something that you know i

204
00:08:24,710 --> 00:08:22,479
suppose fits into well they were

205
00:08:27,029 --> 00:08:24,720
anomalous look at their behavior but it

206
00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:27,039
just fell in line with the times

207
00:08:33,110 --> 00:08:29,440
um she in fact leah was not even in

208
00:08:33,990 --> 00:08:33,120
residence at the initial wrappings um

209
00:08:37,589 --> 00:08:34,000
here

210
00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:37,599
into how it fell out

211
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:39,599
yeah i'd say just keep on going this is

212
00:08:43,750 --> 00:08:41,919
very interesting to hear the back story

213
00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:43,760
right right well it's um it's something

214
00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:45,200
that you know there are

215
00:08:50,310 --> 00:08:47,680
many versions they're all just slightly

216
00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:50,320
different the one that i stick with is

217
00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:51,200
um

218
00:08:59,590 --> 00:08:57,680
was e e lewis esquire out of canandaigua

219
00:09:01,910 --> 00:08:59,600
new york and he showed up on the scene

220
00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:01,920
and actually made you know um

221
00:09:06,790 --> 00:09:04,320
their their testimonies he he deposed

222
00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:06,800
all of the main players uh somehow or

223
00:09:10,470 --> 00:09:08,560
another we managed to get our hands on a

224
00:09:11,190 --> 00:09:10,480
reprint of this manuscript which you

225
00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:11,200
know

226
00:09:15,269 --> 00:09:13,600
that was kind of a stopper um what was

227
00:09:18,949 --> 00:09:15,279
his name again his his first name his

228
00:09:21,030 --> 00:09:18,959
name is e e lewis

229
00:09:22,630 --> 00:09:21,040
got it okay right esquire don't forget

230
00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:22,640
the esquire because i'm sure he never

231
00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:25,040
did but i you know in the setting it was

232
00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:28,080
sort of the general store um kind of

233
00:09:33,190 --> 00:09:30,480
just like the movies uh he he set up a

234
00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:33,200
desk and began began to uh take

235
00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:35,600
testimony um of all the main witnesses

236
00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:37,839
of the night the night

237
00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:41,600
was march 31st 1848 um

238
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,600
it wasn't the first set of wrappings

239
00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:45,839
they actually began in december of that

240
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:48,240
year of actually 47

241
00:09:53,829 --> 00:09:51,040
before the family moved in um

242
00:09:56,790 --> 00:09:53,839
in fact there had been another family in

243
00:09:59,190 --> 00:09:56,800
residence in the same uh cottage which

244
00:10:01,110 --> 00:09:59,200
was a two bedroom one large main room

245
00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:01,120
something underneath called the buttery

246
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:04,560
a basement and that's pivotal um

247
00:10:08,550 --> 00:10:06,480
it by by no means was you know in

248
00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:08,560
disrepair it was a very

249
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,200
livable situation um

250
00:10:16,069 --> 00:10:13,600
they moved in and shortly thereafter

251
00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:16,079
they began to hear what was described as

252
00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:17,519
wrappings

253
00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:19,600
these would increase whenever father

254
00:10:24,949 --> 00:10:22,160
would read the bible which was often

255
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:24,959
uh and they played it off uh

256
00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:27,920
john fox said it's a local cobbler who's

257
00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:29,440
brought some work home you know to

258
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:32,160
finish late at night or perhaps it's

259
00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:33,600
rats

260
00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:35,440
there was a nearby creek called the

261
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,320
cannon cannon let's see no the garangua

262
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:40,240
that was the creek and

263
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,160
it was thought that perhaps there was

264
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:44,480
water moving underground and yes there

265
00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:47,440
was but that's for later uh the

266
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,079
wrappings continued and reached a height

267
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:51,839
they seemed to take place they seemed to

268
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,040
begin

269
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,440
on the outside of the front door after

270
00:10:59,430 --> 00:10:57,680
the family had gone to sleep it became

271
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,440
so spooky for the girls that they all

272
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:02,160
slept in one main room together

273
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:06,160
and it this particular night march 31st

274
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,360
uh

275
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:09,440
they went to sleep early because they

276
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,360
had been awakened previous nights and

277
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:13,680
and margaret especially the mother was

278
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,720
becoming

279
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,720
just almost ill from this constant

280
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:18,399
interruption of her sleep

281
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,800
so that night

282
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:22,640
the girls were awakened first by the

283
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:25,839
wrapping they awakened their parents

284
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:28,240
and at that point the youngest daughter

285
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,120
said

286
00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:31,519
mother it's april fool's day tomorrow

287
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:33,519
this is surely someone playing an april

288
00:11:35,910 --> 00:11:34,800
fool's trick

289
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:35,920
it wasn't

290
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:37,760
and at some point

291
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,640
katie got the inspiration to clap her

292
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:41,760
hands

293
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:44,000
in a numerical fashion

294
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:47,120
and the claps were heard in response

295
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:49,440
and then she made flaps that didn't

296
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:51,120
quite connect she would put her hands

297
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,120
but not quite together

298
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,880
and this was followed by the number of

299
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:56,640
raps she would have made and at some

300
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,880
point she said oh look mother it can see

301
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:00,320
as well as here

302
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:01,440
wow

303
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:02,240
it was

304
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,000
imitating is that

305
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:06,399
imitating yeah yeah

306
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,639
imitating in response see that's that's

307
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:11,360
that's so odd because that's not

308
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:14,639
that that's definitely atypical for most

309
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,279
you know casual reports people who have

310
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:18,880
had um you know

311
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,000
mild haunting or poltergeist experiences

312
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:23,279
it's more of something that's happening

313
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,040
to you but there's very little

314
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:26,639
interaction like that

315
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:29,279
that's very intelligent

316
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:31,040
intelligent that was that that is the

317
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,639
word and uh there are accounts that the

318
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:37,200
girls um decided to play a prank on

319
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:39,279
their parents they were bored

320
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,079
they

321
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,040
tied an apple with a string to the end

322
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,800
of a stick and hit it against the wooden

323
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:47,360
floor to fool their parents

324
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,959
that's just not the case absolutely not

325
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,040
the case they might have done that and

326
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,880
then you know of course there's this

327
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,959
you could treat it like uh they did it

328
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,720
and then they got the wit scared out of

329
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,279
them because something wrapped back but

330
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,720
ultimately

331
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:04,720
that's not even part of the main story

332
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,279
that the trickery um

333
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:09,519
the girls at one point were accused of

334
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:12,720
wrapping their the knuckles the joints

335
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,320
of their toes or their knees to make

336
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:18,720
these popping wrapping sounds

337
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,670
here's a little personal anecdote that

338
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,440
my children would just both you know

339
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:32,000
absolutely slay me for but i'm gonna do

340
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,760
it anyway um

341
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:36,240
during my research and occasionally you

342
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:37,120
know

343
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:39,920
the family dinner time uh conversations

344
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:42,800
about this i mentioned that and within

345
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,399
the next few days

346
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,399
standing quietly in some room both of

347
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:48,720
them were they were playing it off it

348
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:51,519
was they were they were making their toe

349
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,160
joints pop alan they were and it was

350
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:56,399
reverberating you know through our wood

351
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,519
floors and the joists etc

352
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,040
and they were looking at each other like

353
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,079
what's that what oh my god well yeah

354
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,160
yeah so in other words i can say this

355
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:08,320
was possible um

356
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:10,320
i guess i guess what surprises me is the

357
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,279
um

358
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:14,240
the the decibel you know that they could

359
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:17,680
possibly reach because i i can crack my

360
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,240
um one of my toes my big toes on my foot

361
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,000
like all day long i can just crack it

362
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:24,720
crack it crack it but it's not that loud

363
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,120
um maybe if i was snapping you know like

364
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:29,920
we do with our fingers but using my toes

365
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:31,760
maybe that would be louder but it

366
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,920
doesn't seem like it would be

367
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:35,440
it would reverberate in such a way that

368
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:36,639
i would think oh it's coming from the

369
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:39,279
wall or i don't know right right right

370
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:41,279
well this this in the case of my

371
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,279
children this was pretty clearly coming

372
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,360
from the floor they they have skills

373
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,040
skills yeah they definitely it's in

374
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:49,519
their skill set yikes well what can i

375
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,199
say about that you know they come by it

376
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,760
naturally well they yeah well yeah

377
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,120
you're you're an entertainer at your

378
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:57,360
heart so i'm sure that they've got some

379
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,720
of that from you

380
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:00,639
hey it's just a variety of their great

381
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,399
grandfather's soft shoe yeah

382
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:06,880
but but ultimately just to interject um

383
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,480
in the final analysis the girls were um

384
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,639
bound and i'll get into that in a bit

385
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:14,639
they were bound in such a way during

386
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:18,240
this huge uh they were called out

387
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,839
and during this calling out on stage etc

388
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,199
they were bound in such a way that

389
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,279
couldn't possibly have been done um

390
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:27,680
there also though is some professor from

391
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,480
an eastern university who in the 1890s

392
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:32,079
said well that's what they were doing

393
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:33,440
they were they were wrapping their

394
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:35,199
children you know people flew in the

395
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:36,320
face of

396
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,240
what was uh

397
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:40,800
evidentiary and and that's that is such

398
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,440
a parallel to ufology you know it's just

399
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:45,440
uh that kind of stops me it's it's an

400
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:46,560
amazing thing

401
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:51,759
so so the night of march 31st 1848 the

402
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:53,680
neighbors were called in first of mrs

403
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,199
redfield who was at first thinking that

404
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:59,040
someone was ill and then she thought

405
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,560
that the girls were playing a trick this

406
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:02,079
would have been oh probably after

407
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:03,519
midnight sometime

408
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,720
and

409
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,079
i'm just gathering that everybody

410
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:08,399
probably pretty much went to bed not too

411
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:10,480
long after the sun went down

412
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,279
so

413
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:13,120
she was mrs redfield the neighbor was

414
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,240
there

415
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,079
and her husband joined her

416
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:18,079
and it was it got a little humorous

417
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:19,360
because

418
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,959
it's like an old i love lucy show

419
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,880
apparently mrs redfield had never told

420
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:25,199
her husband what her true age was the

421
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:28,240
spirit wrapped her true age

422
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,600
and you know much much humor and hilarit

423
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,959
sued i'm sure

424
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,800
but there wasn't another sad but

425
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,880
extremely convincing note

426
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:39,199
margaret fox had lost a child some years

427
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:42,480
previous and not even her husband had

428
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:45,519
known god was the only person who knew

429
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:47,600
if you will and uh do you know do you

430
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,399
know how she lost the the child it was a

431
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:52,160
it was a miscarriage before the child

432
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:53,839
was born before she was been evidently

433
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:56,480
pregnant uh before it was you know uh

434
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:58,240
visible to her husband

435
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:00,480
and she had just it was a heartbreak for

436
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:02,399
her and so she never mentioned it

437
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:03,199
and

438
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,679
yes but spirit knew there eventually

439
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:08,160
came about uh a situation for

440
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:09,120
um

441
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,839
to ease the communication delays

442
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:14,880
initially it started out as you know uh

443
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:17,760
one wrap for letter a for etc and that

444
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,160
was so time consuming um

445
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:22,720
older brother david stepped in and came

446
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,559
up with a kind of uh yes no response a

447
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:28,400
one and two rap

448
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:29,679
and

449
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,039
the spirit wrapped out that he was the

450
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:35,520
spirit of a murdered peddler charles b

451
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:39,200
rosner spelled r-o-s-n-a you'll also

452
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:43,520
also see that uh misspelled r-o-s-m-a

453
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:44,799
um

454
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:47,280
and i don't know what that i suppose it

455
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:48,559
could be the stroke of a pen and

456
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,000
somebody's interpretation but uh it was

457
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,000
rosna he was a peddler and that's

458
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:56,160
absolutely substantiated at the time of

459
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,000
his death which had been three years

460
00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:00,240
previously in 1843

461
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:01,760
he was

462
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,960
married and had five children

463
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:07,280
his wife ultimately died shortly after

464
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:10,240
he did i was never to my frustration

465
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:13,520
able to track down any of the children

466
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,039
they were jewish and and there was this

467
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,440
wonderful thing of of you know um

468
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:19,919
uh being taken into the community at

469
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:22,480
large and and you know uh nourished and

470
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,080
cherished that way

471
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,320
so that that could you know account for

472
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:28,880
the fact that i in all the um

473
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:31,200
the orphanage records i could never find

474
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:32,400
that name

475
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:33,280
um

476
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,559
a sad tale

477
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:36,640
he was murdered for the sum of five

478
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:38,799
hundred dollars which was stitched

479
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:42,080
inside the lining of his jacket he was a

480
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:43,600
a peddler of

481
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:46,960
you know household notions and in fact

482
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:48,720
on the day of his death

483
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:51,120
he had stopped by this cottage later

484
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,520
occupied by the fox family oh i've left

485
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:55,120
a fact out

486
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:58,240
let's just sort of do a jump back um

487
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,080
the fox family and their two daughters

488
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,880
were not the first family with um

489
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,200
husband wife and two daughters to occupy

490
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,360
that space there was another family

491
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,360
their last name was weekman

492
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,840
and they stayed there just a few short

493
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:14,000
months because one night their youngest

494
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:16,000
daughter was awakened from her sleep she

495
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,000
felt a cold hand touch her face

496
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,640
and that just became so

497
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:24,720
incredibly traumatic obviously for them

498
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,679
they decided to leave um and they left

499
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,520
to me uh

500
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,520
it's kind of as though the spirit of

501
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:33,440
charles b rosner which was on the

502
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,880
property

503
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,960
is somehow or another the communication

504
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:39,039
was supposed to take place through two

505
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:41,200
young girls these just weren't the right

506
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:49,830
okay and and uh genetically as far as

507
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:52,480
dna is concerned um margaret's

508
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,280
grandmother and mother both had uh

509
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:57,679
histories of being able to foretell they

510
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,200
would know when was some when someone

511
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:00,880
who was not at all ill

512
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:03,440
um they would have dream and visualize

513
00:20:08,390 --> 00:20:05,440
their funerals etc

514
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:08,400
right well what what is the right

515
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:11,280
what makes the right girls the right

516
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,720
girls well you see that's where i was

517
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,320
going with the dna

518
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:17,760
some sort of a of a predisposition

519
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:21,679
to at least not dismiss this out of hand

520
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:23,919
or to say this is the devil's work we

521
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:25,600
can't do this

522
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,720
um

523
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:28,000
i'm not sure they had if it would have

524
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,320
stopped because this this uh thing that

525
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,080
they did not bring upon themselves nor

526
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:33,760
did they particularly feel comfortable

527
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,549
so that so that brings us back to

528
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:45,120
um forward are we going forward again

529
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:46,720
yes yes forward i kind of went back okay

530
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,760
um

531
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,520
so so we're we're in that night and

532
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:52,240
we're with the communication um

533
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,880
word spread like wildfire there

534
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,559
obviously um

535
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,640
the morse code wasn't quite on the scene

536
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,880
and oh this was also by the way referred

537
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:02,640
to as god's telegraph

538
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,679
um

539
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:05,840
which is interesting the spiritual yeah

540
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:08,400
the spiritual contact yeah

541
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,360
um

542
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,159
and so as i said so can we have like

543
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:14,720
god's god's you know text messages too

544
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:18,960
no can we say you know why not yeah yeah

545
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,000
well i guess god's um god's helpers uh

546
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:24,880
etc the pope you know everybody tweets

547
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,039
yeah

548
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:29,200
good bad or indifferent um

549
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,760
tweets fly on wings

550
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:33,440
yeah they do they do

551
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:35,200
yeah um

552
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:36,799
so

553
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:37,840
let's see

554
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:41,280
my train of thought flew um

555
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,110
yeah okay how word spread was just you

556
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:51,600
know word of mouth and people came from

557
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:55,120
300 miles away they came on horseback by

558
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,799
foot by carriage uh there was digging

559
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:01,280
going on by the principal players in the

560
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,280
cottage because it was revealed by

561
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:05,840
charles b rodney rosner's spirit

562
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,640
that his body had been hidden in the

563
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,840
cellar

564
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,080
next to the buttery which was a colder

565
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,080
spot obviously a place uses to keep

566
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:17,200
dairy products etc uh dirt floor dirt

567
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,039
floors were kind of um

568
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,640
especially in basements you know it

569
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,880
wasn't anything unusual um it didn't be

570
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,280
speak necessarily poverty to have a dirt

571
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,039
floor in your basement

572
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:29,440
and in fact uh

573
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,000
later one of the working girls the

574
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,720
christian over who had been on site the

575
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,480
night of charles b rosner the peddler's

576
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:39,440
last visit to that place

577
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,559
she said that after that uh the owner of

578
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:44,400
or the renter of the current renter for

579
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,000
whom she worked of that place um

580
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,240
had a habit of working late at night

581
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,720
carrying rocks to and from the sellers

582
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:54,559
so what was that all about she was also

583
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,280
given a torn coat

584
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,080
ripped on the inside the lining was torn

585
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,080
and she was given this coat by the

586
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:04,799
missus and asked to um plea alter it to

587
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,360
fit her husband well i'm you know that

588
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,080
was charles b rosner's coat and lucretia

589
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:12,000
pulver's testimony is is that part of

590
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:16,559
that taken by um the attorney e.e lewis

591
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:17,360
so

592
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,000
he stops at the cottage which is

593
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,559
uh occupied the man's name was john c

594
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,520
bell not to be confused with a new york

595
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,440
senator of the same era who was named

596
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:29,919
john bell john c bell

597
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:32,480
and his wife whose name is unknown

598
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:35,440
they were the occupants uh

599
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,600
their their working girl lucretia pulver

600
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:40,240
had wanted to buy some fabric from

601
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,840
charles b rosner she didn't have the

602
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:43,360
money with her because they hadn't paid

603
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:44,400
her

604
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,440
away and she said she would

605
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,360
arrive with the money the next day the

606
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:53,760
peddler said he'd be back and he he was

607
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:54,880
never back

608
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:55,919
um

609
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:57,760
the way my husband and i have written it

610
00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:59,919
for the musical that someday might be

611
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:02,400
finished is that he was invited in for

612
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,679
dinner and drugged and

613
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,400
the hardest part to write is the fact

614
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:10,880
that he was beheaded

615
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:14,080
they um they slit his throat and

616
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,279
and caught the blood in crockery

617
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:19,440
part of the haunting is an auditory

618
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:22,720
haunting the sound of gurgling and the

619
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:25,919
sound of crockery breaking and indeed

620
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,080
shards of crockery were found as they

621
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,600
dug in the cellar

622
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,200
the crowds that came to see the digging

623
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:33,520
in the cellar uh a woman even jumped

624
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:35,919
hoop skirt and all through the kitchen

625
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:39,200
crowds came crowded crowds came

626
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,559
the fox family had to had to vacate uh

627
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:45,200
no yellow tape and that's just yeah

628
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,720
exactly no no helicopters no no

629
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:50,000
11 no

630
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,159
no footage nothing on you

631
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,080
a free-for-all i mean that's what it

632
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,720
sounds like it was it was a free-fall

633
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:58,400
and but some of the major players who

634
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:00,080
were the diggers were well placed within

635
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,240
the community and they dug until they

636
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:04,000
came to water

637
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,679
which i i'm

638
00:25:10,149 --> 00:25:07,440
remembering that is about a little over

639
00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:10,159
three feet down and uh the garnagua the

640
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:11,760
nearby creek apparently was you know

641
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,400
making inroads so they had to stop but

642
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:16,080
they did find

643
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:19,039
bones which if only we had you know the

644
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:20,400
dna then

645
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:23,440
um they found bones that were of an

646
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:26,000
unknown origin and they found bits of

647
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:29,440
crockery with hair also of unknown

648
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,559
origin stuck to them yeah so that's it

649
00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:33,919
and the

650
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:37,360
so at that point the family um

651
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,120
they decamped to rochester new york uh

652
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:43,760
leah and her daughter the two sisters

653
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:46,320
and mother margaret and a family friend

654
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,000
named calvin brown

655
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,240
this is an interesting character he was

656
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:52,559
about a decade younger than leah

657
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:55,279
his mother had been a very like the best

658
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,480
friend of margaret leah's mother and

659
00:26:01,029 --> 00:26:00,000
upon her death

660
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,039
um

661
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:03,360
it was sort of they they wanted to take

662
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:05,600
care of calvin and the way they took

663
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:08,159
care of him was he got married to leah

664
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:10,320
who by that time was uh you know had

665
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,840
divorce papers or whatever maybe just

666
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,400
the the grass widow thing of

667
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:16,799
her first husband mr fish

668
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:17,600
um

669
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:20,000
and so she that's that's where she

670
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:23,760
became ann leah fox fish

671
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:24,720
um

672
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:26,720
that was the part of the saga he was in

673
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,520
residence on troop street in rochester

674
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:31,279
for an awful lot of the activities that

675
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,400
went on there lots of hauntings it all

676
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:36,880
it went with them it followed them they

677
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:39,440
took a packet boat on the erie canal

678
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:40,240
and

679
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:41,360
uh

680
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:44,400
you know the night boat to work and they

681
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,919
took it uh and got off and were in

682
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,159
rochester and new york

683
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,159
down the street not too far away was the

684
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:54,240
home of frederick douglass and his

685
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:57,919
daughter rosetta um very huge in

686
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:00,400
abolitionism um you know

687
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:03,039
obviously movers and shakers um

688
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,360
and the situation was that they

689
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:08,080
came to the aid of the girls as did a

690
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:10,400
couple of prominent quakers uh isaac and

691
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:14,400
amy post also locals um horace greeley

692
00:27:18,390 --> 00:27:16,400
was one of their sponsors james fenimore

693
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:18,400
cooper that the list of names who

694
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,400
supported them and their endeavors and

695
00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:22,159
and found them to be authentic you know

696
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:24,799
is is a little staggering

697
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,760
that is staggering um

698
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,520
so you know we're go just have a couple

699
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:31,919
more minutes here um before we have to

700
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:34,080
go to the first break uh but i so i just

701
00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:36,000
wanted to jump in and

702
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:37,919
and share because you had mentioned it

703
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:39,279
um that you and your husband have been

704
00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:41,440
working on a musical based yes on this

705
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:43,919
story um so how long have you been

706
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:46,320
working on it and

707
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:49,279
when are we gonna hear it yeah my god uh

708
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:50,799
anybody's guess i would like to say

709
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,400
sooner rather than later it's one of

710
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,080
those things that just the business of

711
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,159
living sometimes gets in the way so it's

712
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,799
it's been fits and starts um

713
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:00,720
we have two and a half acts

714
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:02,000
um

715
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,240
at this point it looks as though it it

716
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:06,559
you know to make it three is going to be

717
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:09,600
just you know too much for everybody um

718
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:11,760
and and so it's going to be a solid two

719
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:13,760
at this point so it's you know once

720
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,240
again it's the editing the reworking um

721
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:17,679
unfortunately there's a beginning a

722
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:19,360
middle and an end

723
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,240
um

724
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,320
it's got something along the lines of 20

725
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,520
to 24 songs and that could be trimmed um

726
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,520
yeah well i mean if we all learned

727
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,640
something from andrew lloyd webber

728
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:30,880
sometimes a little trimming's okay

729
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,240
oh absolutely yes yes bring me my

730
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:35,919
scissors

731
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:38,320
it's a it's it's an important um

732
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,919
important part of the process you know

733
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,840
you can't let ego get away you know

734
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,440
could be a good song but you know not

735
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:45,039
for here well let's hold it right there

736
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,880
and we'll pick up um with the story and

737
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,960
more about the fox sisters um when we

738
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,640
get back this is alan b smith i'm

739
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,480
paranormal now i'm speaking with carol

740
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:54,480
carl from the inception radio network

741
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:58,960
and um yeah hold on we'll be

742
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,880
welcome back to paranormal now my host

743
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:02,720
is carol carl and taking us out of the

744
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:07,200
break was white flag by dido um so so

745
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,039
carol we were talking about the fox

746
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:11,919
sisters obviously um yes quite the

747
00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:15,200
interesting backstory leading up um so

748
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,799
we're picking up in rochester

749
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,799
rochester new york this would have been

750
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,640
about 1849.

751
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,120
um they were wisconsin in a nice

752
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,120
two-story place with sufficient space

753
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:29,840
for maggie leah and leah and margaret

754
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:32,480
when she visited i i left out a pivotal

755
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:34,720
thing about margaret during the initial

756
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:36,960
contacts uh with the neighbors and all

757
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:39,279
the ensuing chaos

758
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:41,200
margaret's hair is reported to have

759
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,470
wow okay now

760
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,480
we do know we do know though that isn't

761
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,120
isn't that actually possible

762
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:54,080
you know i've heard both ways um yes

763
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,240
i've heard that it could have been

764
00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:57,520
right right i spoke with a wonderful

765
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,399
woman who uh in fact i relayed this to

766
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,640
her about margaret and she said that

767
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:04,000
that's not surprising to her she

768
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,520
apparently knew somebody who was in

769
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,600
military service and i don't even

770
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:09,200
remember which war

771
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:12,159
who had that happen in some sort of

772
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:13,360
incredible

773
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,320
tense

774
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:16,480
life-threatening situation uh the next

775
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,039
day his hair was white

776
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,200
so i don't know there are those who say

777
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,200
that's scientifically impossible it

778
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,880
doesn't um yeah because because it is a

779
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:26,399
dead particle

780
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:27,919
it's not like um you know it's not like

781
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:28,960
your skin

782
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:31,120
you know technically it's it's it's dead

783
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,640
it's it's um

784
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,399
so how yeah how could it possibly change

785
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,240
right it's not like getting a bruise

786
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,000
right um

787
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,559
so i don't know i suppose

788
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:42,640
this is nonsense but it's the blurry

789
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:45,520
possibility that uh margaret perhaps was

790
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,320
coloring her hair with some herb or root

791
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,159
and that at some point she just gave it

792
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:52,399
up because it was too much involving you

793
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:53,120
know

794
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,960
regarding the uh situation they found

795
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,080
themselves in

796
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,960
so you know i do i do wonder because yes

797
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,080
people say well you would have to dye

798
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,480
your hair right but um if you get a

799
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,640
tattoo removed removed they're using

800
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:07,039
lasers so you know if i'm going to

801
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:08,159
stretch

802
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:09,360
the

803
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:10,720
speculation

804
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,600
maybe

805
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,919
uh electrical force running through your

806
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:15,840
body might actually have sort of some

807
00:31:19,510 --> 00:31:16,840
effect on the

808
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,520
pigment you know so if you're getting

809
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:21,360
shocked or some something

810
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,120
you know because right i mean that's how

811
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,440
you get rid of tattoos it's lasers

812
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,080
so some sort of as yet unknown

813
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,600
electrical

814
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:32,399
thing using the human body and then of

815
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:34,240
course there's that there's that thing

816
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,520
about um

817
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,600
spirits who manifest so that they're

818
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:40,320
visible um there's that traditional cold

819
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:41,200
spot

820
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,159
where

821
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:44,159
it's it is also thought that the cold

822
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:46,640
spot is produced because the entity

823
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:49,039
needs energy and in drawing their energy

824
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,919
from the air they're creating cold uh

825
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:53,440
you know i wish i had a better chemical

826
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:55,120
background too you know to address the

827
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,480
science of this

828
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:58,720
yeah but but it's interesting okay so so

829
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,120
her hair turns white right right so

830
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:04,080
meanwhile um hair white or no she um she

831
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,240
is in the city of rochester with her

832
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:08,159
daughter and her granddaughters her

833
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:15,830
it's an interesting overlap historically

834
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,640
with what was going on with uh frederick

835
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:21,039
douglass and others and abolition and

836
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,720
with the feminist movement in fact uh

837
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,440
just about i think early april after

838
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,600
this march 31st rapping that you know

839
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,279
which was the great coalescence of

840
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:33,360
everything um there was the first

841
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,320
feminist convention in seneca falls and

842
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:39,120
amelia bloomer and her husband who um

843
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:41,919
had a newspaper called lily and sesame i

844
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:46,240
believe was the title they they um

845
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,399
they were definitely supporters of the

846
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,320
fox sisters and

847
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,240
um that that's something we interject

848
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,320
into the musical because who can resist

849
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:56,000
you know amelia bloomer who brought us

850
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:57,200
bloomers

851
00:33:00,630 --> 00:32:58,159
yeah

852
00:33:01,830 --> 00:33:00,640
um that's just too much to resist

853
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,840
so

854
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:03,519
but but um

855
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:06,880
they they had great supporters um

856
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:09,919
there was such an overlap in interests

857
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,320
between feminists and abolitionists and

858
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:14,240
spiritualists

859
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:15,760
and it was all happening in the same

860
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:17,360
region of the united states and almost

861
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:20,799
simultaneously um so something was up up

862
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,600
there

863
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,200
um

864
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:25,600
and it sort of filtered down

865
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:28,240
my take sort of is that

866
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:30,320
at some point and why don't we know as

867
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,159
much about the spiritualist movement as

868
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,159
those other two um

869
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,240
i sort of think that perhaps it's

870
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,480
possible spirits had i don't know some

871
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,279
sort of a you know a prime directive and

872
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:43,120
it was kind of uh

873
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:44,159
uh

874
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:47,200
that's okay the the social aspects of

875
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:48,960
what's going on on planet earth among

876
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:51,360
the living need to be addressed more

877
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:53,120
than our spirits we're fine thank you

878
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:55,600
very much and and so um

879
00:34:03,509 --> 00:33:58,640
that's it's interesting um

880
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,519
the girls were compelled asked in seance

881
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:05,200
by spirit

882
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,399
to hold a gathering at a place called

883
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:10,960
corinthian hall in rochester which had

884
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:13,040
just been completed it was an enormous

885
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:14,800
building um

886
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:17,599
four columns out in front majestic and

887
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:20,240
with a huge hall and a stage in the

888
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,599
front

889
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,679
they were requested by spirit

890
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:26,000
uh spirits to

891
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:27,839
hold this gathering

892
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:30,960
in front of all kinds of locals and

893
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:33,599
people highly placed in that community

894
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:36,879
they were also told to ask the wives of

895
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,079
these community leaders to dress them in

896
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:43,200
quote other people's clothes

897
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,919
so

898
00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:46,320
as to preclude any hidden objects that

899
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,919
the girls could have having had in their

900
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,440
skirts you know petticoats

901
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,399
uh right um anything on their persons

902
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:54,480
they their ankles were bound they were

903
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:56,079
bound at the knees the knees and the

904
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,040
ankles covered with pillows etc they are

905
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:01,440
relatively barbaric um

906
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,240
but they were up for it because they

907
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,640
they wanted to absolutely authenticate

908
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:08,400
themselves they wanted this you know to

909
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:11,440
be uh definitely something that

910
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,280
they wanted to prove themselves and so

911
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:15,200
they did for three days beginning

912
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,599
november 11th 1849 in corinthian hall

913
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,400
which sadly is no longer there it's a

914
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,200
it's a parking lot but um

915
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:27,200
it's it was the stage from which the

916
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,119
girls ultimately were not able to be

917
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:31,359
debunked uh

918
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,079
and mind you right outside the lobby of

919
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,240
this place there were people waiting

920
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:38,560
literally with tar and feathers the

921
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,000
girls were going to be tarred and

922
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:41,760
feathered and at one point before they

923
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,800
left uh hydesville uh the cry went out

924
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:46,880
to hang them as witches they wanted them

925
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:48,240
to be lynched

926
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,800
so um this wasn't pretty

927
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,760
yeah

928
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:53,520
it you know it always it still always

929
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:54,880
dumbfounds me that

930
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,400
people who believe in uh spirits

931
00:36:01,109 --> 00:36:00,079
want to condemn people who say they hear

932
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,119
spirits

933
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,359
it's the most odd thing

934
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:05,200
you know it's it is it's

935
00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:06,880
so kind so contradict yeah it's

936
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,040
contradictory completely

937
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:11,520
yeah exactly and

938
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:13,359
can i read you something it's it's from

939
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:14,079
um

940
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:17,359
and leah fox fish brown underhall's book

941
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,240
um under hill's book um

942
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:22,160
she said that uh

943
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:24,079
we regarded this is how the family felt

944
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:25,440
about what was going on

945
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:28,480
we regarded it as a great misfortune as

946
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:30,400
it was an affliction which had fallen

947
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,520
upon us

948
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:34,240
how whence or why we knew not

949
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:35,920
the influence of the surrounding opinion

950
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,160
of neighbors and the country roundabout

951
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,280
reacted upon us in conformation of our

952
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:43,440
whole own natural and educational

953
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:45,760
impressions but the whole thing was of

954
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:49,040
evil origin unnatural perplexing and

955
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:50,640
tormenting

956
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:52,720
while its unpopularity tended to cast a

957
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,280
painful shadow upon us we resisted it

958
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:57,680
struggled against it and constantly and

959
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,560
earnestly prayed for deliverance from it

960
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,480
even while a strange fascination

961
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,760
attached to these marvelous

962
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,160
manifestations forced upon us against

963
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,880
our will by invisible agencies and

964
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:10,800
agents and we could neither resist

965
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,760
control nor understand

966
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:15,839
and they say that you know she continues

967
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:17,839
to say that if if their wishes their

968
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,200
prayers had prevailed and unveiled uh

969
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:23,520
they would have put a halt to this they

970
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:25,440
it it really pretty much wrecked their

971
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,640
lives

972
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:28,880
well yeah it's not unlike many story of

973
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:31,200
women of women they are victims of their

974
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,720
circumstance and then they're blamed for

975
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,560
their circumstance

976
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,800
oh yes uh definitely that was something

977
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:38,480
at play um

978
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,000
there's more misinformation out there

979
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:42,240
kind of along those lines that sure um

980
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:45,599
that that leah and maggie worked for pt

981
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:46,640
barnum

982
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:49,200
uh you know the freak show aspect there

983
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,359
you are there's again this um

984
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:54,320
besmirchment this month slinging they

985
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:57,440
actually in fact rented quarters a suite

986
00:38:01,829 --> 00:37:59,599
in the pt barnum hotel in new york city

987
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:01,839
and that's where it just you know really

988
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,190
uh where where the misinformation came

989
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:11,200
from that they were on the road as part

990
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,800
of p.t bailey

991
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:14,640
pt barnum rather

992
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,440
before bayley uh road show that there

993
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:19,760
was you know a freakish freakish nature

994
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,079
to this to their presentation and not

995
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,960
not through um in fact at the barnum

996
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:26,079
hotel

997
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:29,680
there was a seance in which in which uh

998
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:32,079
james venomore cooper was present uh

999
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:33,760
horace greeley

1000
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:35,920
several other prominent citizens whose

1001
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:38,720
name escapes me as does the name of the

1002
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,040
episcopal minister who was present he

1003
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:43,680
was extremely skeptical but he wanted to

1004
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,040
see something for himself so you can you

1005
00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:48,960
know set it um

1006
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:50,760
18 at this point the

1007
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:53,680
1860s um

1008
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:56,079
and it was a situation where they sat

1009
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:57,920
around a table one of the gentlemen had

1010
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:00,720
brought an envelope sealed and in it was

1011
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,200
something of unknown origin

1012
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:05,760
it was handed to maggie

1013
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,200
who began to get the feeling of what was

1014
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:10,960
in the envelope

1015
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:15,520
and she said this is human hair

1016
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:17,599
this is hair from

1017
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,640
an exceptional individual he's

1018
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:23,520
small he's mighty

1019
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,599
well this was a snipping of hair that

1020
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:27,119
had been sealed previously in the

1021
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,480
envelope

1022
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,000
unknown even to the minister who

1023
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,560
presented it it was a clipping from a

1024
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:34,400
barber that had been swept up off the

1025
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:35,760
floor it was the hair of napoleon

1026
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,079
bonaparte

1027
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:40,000
small but mighty that just about does it

1028
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:41,839
yes this

1029
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,680
yeah

1030
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:45,680
okay

1031
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:46,480
so

1032
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:48,560
much subs

1033
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:51,440
go ahead oh no no go ahead

1034
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,160
no

1035
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,960
historically

1036
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:57,680
right before charles b rodney rosna's

1037
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,839
i'm even stumbling on that charles b

1038
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:01,520
rosner's

1039
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:04,160
wrappings made themselves apparent at

1040
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,430
came to a complete and total halt

1041
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,960
uh they froze

1042
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:17,760
um

1043
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:20,720
people were walking down in the area

1044
00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:23,440
that was left just as frozen land there

1045
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:26,960
were cannons muskets wheels of all kinds

1046
00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:29,200
from antiquity um

1047
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,320
essentially what happened was that the

1048
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,560
folks in buffalo woke up to the sound of

1049
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:34,400
silence shall we say

1050
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,520
the absence of that that noise that

1051
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:39,920
accompanied their daily existence yeah

1052
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:40,800
um

1053
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:41,760
it

1054
00:40:55,349 --> 00:40:52,960
thawed rather than unfroze and the water

1055
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:55,359
began to run again that it's during that

1056
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:57,760
silence that the wrappings at charles b

1057
00:41:02,230 --> 00:40:59,359
rosner were heard

1058
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:02,240
there's a long history um i guess really

1059
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:05,680
back into antiquity of water and the

1060
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:08,400
energy regarding spirits

1061
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:10,960
how common is that that water freezes

1062
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,119
energy anyway specifically niagara falls

1063
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:15,520
i mean is that i that was kind of a

1064
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,200
first as far as i can tell i remember

1065
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:20,079
stumbling upon it and i i found it

1066
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:21,839
independently i was not you know

1067
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:23,839
searching for something connected to the

1068
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:25,680
fox sisters but i tallied the dates and

1069
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,640
it was like whoa um pretty apparent that

1070
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:30,480
something was up um

1071
00:41:36,309 --> 00:41:34,000
specifically the the logical you know

1072
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,319
real world explanation is that there was

1073
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,720
some sort of a freeze farther down the

1074
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,359
line uh that kept the water actually

1075
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:43,520
from you know reaching its point where

1076
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:46,960
it would have been forceful enough to uh

1077
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,349
yeah i mean obviously if it's cold

1078
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,839
enough water can freeze and if the if

1079
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,920
the motion of the of the

1080
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,760
river is slowed enough then then that

1081
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,920
might be but the coincidence there yeah

1082
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:01,520
it is quite odd

1083
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:03,520
right the timing yeah the timing is

1084
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:05,839
really lovely yeah

1085
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,880
um

1086
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:08,079
so

1087
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:11,760
feathered um and as i said they at

1088
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,319
corinthian hall on those days and they

1089
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,440
went forward and went to new york um

1090
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:19,119
regarding the musical and the story that

1091
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,319
we follow

1092
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,640
uh their lives just kind of became so

1093
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,800
unhappy um

1094
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,720
and and we just don't have that kind of

1095
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:27,920
uh

1096
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,400
theatrical presentation in mind it's

1097
00:42:34,230 --> 00:42:33,280
more for the the joy of the contact

1098
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,240
um

1099
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:35,920
and what this meant but it's so

1100
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,319
interesting that charles b rosner's name

1101
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:41,040
is not better known um you know i've

1102
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:42,640
spoken to people who say whoa you know

1103
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:44,720
that he's moses what's going on you know

1104
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:47,839
or or uh some other incredible uh

1105
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,160
contact from biblical times but

1106
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:53,359
be giving given the uh nature of um

1107
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:57,040
spiritualism um which is a religion and

1108
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,680
it's a very curious um

1109
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:02,720
one of its tenets is uh redemption for

1110
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:04,560
all

1111
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:08,480
well

1112
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:12,720
isn't that the same as as jesus christ

1113
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:15,760
yes but this is this is without

1114
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:18,960
uh any kind of you don't even have to to

1115
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:21,839
sign on you know or say amen it's just

1116
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,280
something no matter how awful your life

1117
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,359
has been what your hideous deeds have

1118
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,599
been here that there is redemption for

1119
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,359
all spirits

1120
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,359
i see so okay

1121
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,599
there's no there's no contractual

1122
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:37,200
verbally contractual or spiritual

1123
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:40,079
contractual caveat it's just no that

1124
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,680
that's right that's right it just goes

1125
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:44,160
with the territory being alive mm-hmm

1126
00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:45,920
okay and then and then you know

1127
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,160
transitioning yeah

1128
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:50,000
yeah you know it's interesting i'm not

1129
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,079
surprised that spiritualism and

1130
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,480
feminism are on the rise together uh

1131
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:56,319
because at the same time

1132
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:57,440
you

1133
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:00,160
people it seems to me that would be

1134
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,280
willing to

1135
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:03,839
you know kind of risk the um the stigma

1136
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:04,560
of

1137
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:08,720
talking to or dealing with

1138
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:11,680
um people who are non um christian in

1139
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,200
their actions maybe not in their hearts

1140
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:15,200
but in their actions right um you know

1141
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:16,880
that would be counter catholic or

1142
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,440
counter you know baptist in their in

1143
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,200
these rituals the people who would

1144
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:23,599
participate in that i would assume were

1145
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,599
were somewhat progressive

1146
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:28,000
in their thinking as you know they did

1147
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:32,400
not abide by a um confined dogma and yes

1148
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,359
yes

1149
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:35,040
and yeah and many of the people leading

1150
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,319
these spiritual sessions i mean there

1151
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:38,319
were men but where it seems to me at

1152
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,960
least from looking back on history it

1153
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:43,200
was primarily women who were sort of

1154
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,040
moving the spiritualist

1155
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,720
movement forward

1156
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,640
absolutely that's a very great point

1157
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:50,640
that you make uh the combination there

1158
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,079
of the timing of feminism um yes you

1159
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:56,319
know we were still in an era when uh

1160
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:57,760
women

1161
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,920
it was sort of it was looked askance if

1162
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,520
they wanted to publish something they

1163
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,960
had written on there under their own

1164
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,960
names um

1165
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,119
yeah um

1166
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,040
i mean look look even even recently i

1167
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:10,720
just finished the chamber of secrets the

1168
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:12,880
second book of harry potter

1169
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:15,280
and um so i was reading about you know

1170
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,319
jk rowling and you know even now even or

1171
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:20,160
this is the 90s but you know they're

1172
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,240
like well let's use your initials just

1173
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:24,480
in case guys boys

1174
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:25,839
won't want to read it because you're a

1175
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:27,920
woman

1176
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:30,160
and you know she went along with it and

1177
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:31,440
you know financially things have worked

1178
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,280
out well for her but

1179
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:35,520
but it's a shame that that even up until

1180
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,839
this day you know these these things are

1181
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:39,359
yeah

1182
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:42,160
oh and it's you know it's yes it's

1183
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,599
another one of those last taboos um

1184
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:47,359
i i am actually holding in my hand

1185
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:49,040
something that is the ultimate punch

1186
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:50,400
line

1187
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,760
but first i'm getting there a little

1188
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,760
earlier let me back up just a little bit

1189
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,200
regarding the remains of charles b

1190
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:57,440
rosner um

1191
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,119
well they were found and with them was

1192
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,160
found a tin peddler's box

1193
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,760
which to this day resides at lillydale

1194
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:08,800
the lillydale assembly in new york uh

1195
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:11,520
ongoing in fact i think probably they

1196
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:12,880
might be at the height of their season

1197
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,599
because of climate they um they're not

1198
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,240
able to have year-round uh

1199
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,040
lectures et cetera conferences but they

1200
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,359
do and they do very well um people like

1201
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:25,599
wayne dyer for instance he he spoke

1202
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:27,680
there at one point um

1203
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,079
but it's ongoing and in fact in order to

1204
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:32,160
occupy a dwell into own property in

1205
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,520
lilly dale

1206
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,680
there's a test one has to pass a test of

1207
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:38,560
mediumship um before you can even think

1208
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,560
about owning property there they want to

1209
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,599
make sure they don't have you know

1210
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,200
they're not hosting

1211
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:45,520
outward uh frauds

1212
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:49,040
charlatans sure yeah charlatans indeed

1213
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:49,920
um

1214
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,480
so anyway i listen this is this was

1215
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,560
something that really staggered me um

1216
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,560
there was a lot of stuff

1217
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:58,960
in the research i was doing that knocked

1218
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:01,920
my socks off um a couple of dates uh the

1219
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:03,760
date of the incorporation for instance

1220
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:07,359
of wayne county um was april 11th 1823

1221
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,400
april 11th is my birthday not 1823 i'm

1222
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,319
i'm a little younger than that but also

1223
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:14,960
the date of all the depositions begun by

1224
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:17,119
that attorney who came to town who came

1225
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:20,800
to hide so ee lewis esquire um those

1226
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,800
were begun margaret's deposition was

1227
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,640
taken on april 11th so it was kind of

1228
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:27,040
like well this is curious but here's an

1229
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:30,160
article uh from the boston journal dated

1230
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:33,520
november 22nd 1904. we're fast

1231
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:34,720
forwarding now

1232
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:38,079
rochester new york the skeleton of a man

1233
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:40,160
supposed to have caused the wrappings

1234
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:43,280
first her by the fox sisters in 1848 has

1235
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:45,599
been found in the walls of the house

1236
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,160
occupied by the sisters and clears them

1237
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,400
from the only shadow of doubt held

1238
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,400
concerning their sincerity in the

1239
00:47:56,710 --> 00:47:54,720
discovery of spirit communication the

1240
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,720
discovery was made by school children

1241
00:48:02,390 --> 00:47:59,200
playing in the cellar of the building in

1242
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:02,400
hydesville known as the spook house

1243
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:03,920
where the [\h__\h] sisters heard those

1244
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:06,240
wonderful wrappings william h hyde a

1245
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,560
reputable citizen of clyde who owns the

1246
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:11,280
house made an investigation and found an

1247
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:14,720
almost entire human skeleton between the

1248
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,200
earth and the crumbling cellar walls

1249
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:18,960
undoubtedly that of the wandering

1250
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,040
heddler who it was claimed was murdered

1251
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,119
in the east room of the house and whose

1252
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,599
body was hidden in the cellar mr hyde

1253
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,520
had notified has notified relatives of

1254
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:29,680
the fox sisters and the notice of the

1255
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:31,359
discovery will be sent to the national

1256
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:33,760
order of spiritualists many of whom

1257
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:36,559
remember having made pilgrimage to that

1258
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,119
spook house as it is commonly called the

1259
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:40,880
finding of the bones practically

1260
00:48:47,750 --> 00:48:43,359
corroborates the sworn statement made by

1261
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:47,760
margaret margaret fox april 11 1848.

1262
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,400
so

1263
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:50,480
there you have it um

1264
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:52,000
the bones were not found because

1265
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:54,240
initially they were looking in the floor

1266
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:57,680
of the cellar when in fact uh john c

1267
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,200
bell i'm pretty convinced he'd

1268
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:03,280
with the help of his wife that they put

1269
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,079
the body upright in the wall so it just

1270
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:08,480
and made a false wall around it

1271
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:09,280
so

1272
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:13,359
why then why wouldn't the um

1273
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:14,800
why wouldn't he communicate that more

1274
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:16,880
clearly

1275
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,119
that's an interesting question that is a

1276
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:21,359
very interesting question he

1277
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:22,079
yeah

1278
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,200
yes

1279
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:24,960
oh no no i just i just wondered you know

1280
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:27,119
is he just telling the initial

1281
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,880
was there a miscommunication not miss

1282
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,440
camille i guess that it must have been

1283
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:33,599
or something's just in the translation

1284
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,280
something lost in the translation yeah

1285
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,880
because as if

1286
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,640
that that's where he was killed and

1287
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,000
maybe that's initially where they were

1288
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:42,160
going to bury him and things changed um

1289
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,440
so maybe he told just that first part of

1290
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:48,079
that story to them i don't i don't know

1291
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:50,480
but it seems odd that you know to to

1292
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:53,040
cross that um invisible

1293
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,079
you know dimension into ours and yes to

1294
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:58,480
share to share that that it would um it

1295
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:59,599
wouldn't be

1296
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,359
specific enough but

1297
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,880
um then again we're dealing with that's

1298
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,800
a very interesting point that had not

1299
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:06,240
occurred to me alan thank you that's

1300
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,280
something to ponder um curious

1301
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:11,920
and again it speaks to i don't know you

1302
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:13,680
know too much star trek here but is

1303
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:17,119
there a spiritual prime directive

1304
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:20,559
uh maybe or or sometimes i do wonder

1305
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,400
if you know oftentimes

1306
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:24,319
spirits really aren't

1307
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:28,400
the leftover souls but it really just um

1308
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,800
you know like like residuals like

1309
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,640
residual memories

1310
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:35,119
okay kind of stuck in the fabric

1311
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,079
imprinted right looping thing

1312
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,079
sure so so there's data there there's

1313
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,599
there's something there's information

1314
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:43,680
that that person a part of that person

1315
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,800
is still

1316
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:47,040
functioning you know the uh you know a

1317
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:48,960
shadow of their mind is there

1318
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:51,760
you know but not the actual spirit

1319
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,950
i don't know i

1320
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:00,559
pretty much think that

1321
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:02,720
so many accounts i've heard and read of

1322
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:03,599
um

1323
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:05,839
hauntings that that are that fall into

1324
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:08,319
that category of residual um you know

1325
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:09,920
where uh

1326
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,240
yeah we had guests over again you know

1327
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,160
last night for bridge and and we watched

1328
00:51:17,109 --> 00:51:15,680
the you know the ghost walk through the

1329
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:17,119
kitchen wall again you know that sort of

1330
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:19,920
thing where it's a repetitive um

1331
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,319
especially you know the idea that

1332
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,480
whoever occupied whatever spirit is

1333
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,880
walking through that kitchen wall um

1334
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,359
maybe initially there was no wall there

1335
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,200
etc it was a doorway

1336
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:33,520
um yeah yeah i think that's why some

1337
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:35,599
people like to differentiate between a

1338
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:36,720
ghost

1339
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:42,079
soul the soul of a person being

1340
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,119
something

1341
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:46,160
different than those two things

1342
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,440
oh yeah that's a hard one because

1343
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:51,200
souls you know

1344
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:55,599
uh my take is that uh souls are ancient

1345
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:58,559
and um i i'm definitely on board for

1346
00:52:01,349 --> 00:52:00,079
reincarnation

1347
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:01,359
um

1348
00:52:06,150 --> 00:52:03,280
and it's uh

1349
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:06,160
so that's so if souls are

1350
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,119
yes yeah i mean if souls are ancient

1351
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,880
then they it wouldn't seem to me that

1352
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:12,640
they would get stuck

1353
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,520
in in loops in these sort of repetitive

1354
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:17,440
hauntings you know

1355
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:20,880
if if we if we do have a

1356
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,280
you know eternal or long-term

1357
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,599
um existence or process that we have to

1358
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,520
go through um but i don't know maybe

1359
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,280
it's a pit stop and you know you're kind

1360
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,280
of stuck in this you know this this

1361
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:33,200
little um

1362
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,119
you know plane between planes for a

1363
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,200
while i don't know

1364
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:39,520
wow i i just for some reason i just

1365
00:52:44,829 --> 00:52:41,599
pictured one of those hamster things you

1366
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,839
know with all the tubes and tunnels oh

1367
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,640
um yeah

1368
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:48,160
that's you know that's that's very

1369
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:49,680
curious because then there's i just

1370
00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:51,119
recently bumped into the concept that

1371
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:53,839
souls can occupy they say or do oh wait

1372
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:56,800
one soul can be fragmented into many

1373
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:05,670
yeah i don't like to believe that um

1374
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,280
you know it makes it

1375
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:09,280
it complicates stuff yeah this is really

1376
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:11,680
it's already complicated enough

1377
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:13,040
please

1378
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:15,280
it's too much for me right now um i know

1379
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:16,079
but

1380
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,680
so okay so let's let's keep on talking

1381
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:20,160
then about the fox sister so what else

1382
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,760
um happened then we so this article that

1383
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:25,680
told the story that they actually found

1384
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:27,520
the body in the wall when was that

1385
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:28,960
article journal yep

1386
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,599
when was it actually 22nd 194.

1387
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:34,079
1904 okay okay

1388
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,280
okay and so did was there any notoriety

1389
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:39,599
um after that because of the article

1390
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,480
uh well what happened and i wish i had a

1391
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:44,559
better year on this oh actually wait a

1392
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,400
minute maybe i do um a sad thing at not

1393
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:50,240
these papers hold on let me shuffle some

1394
00:53:56,109 --> 00:53:53,680
papers oh what bad radio um okay uh no

1395
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,119
not these papers is sometime in the

1396
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:57,839
1880s

1397
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:58,800
uh

1398
00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:01,839
maggie had fallen upon hard times

1399
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:02,880
and

1400
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:06,319
she also was struggling with alcoholism

1401
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,319
her father also struggled with it so you

1402
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,040
know a genetic factor perhaps in there

1403
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,680
but her life was very unhappy and she

1404
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:15,520
had had a falling out

1405
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:18,400
with her sister's sister kate and sister

1406
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:20,079
anne leah

1407
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:21,119
so

1408
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:23,680
she finally ultimately succumbed to the

1409
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:26,640
pressure that was being put on her by

1410
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:29,839
some disingenuous individuals who wanted

1411
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:33,040
her to retract her information wanted

1412
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:35,839
her to testify in fact to put you know

1413
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,480
something in print uh that this was all

1414
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:41,520
a hoax that the girls indeed always had

1415
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:43,680
been faking it they always had been

1416
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:45,920
popping their toe joints knees elbows

1417
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:49,200
etc and that there was no spirit contact

1418
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:50,400
um

1419
00:54:54,790 --> 00:54:52,880
she did that and almost immediately from

1420
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:54,800
what i gather

1421
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:56,960
felt bad about it and ultimately within

1422
00:55:01,190 --> 00:55:00,160
the next perhaps two years retracted

1423
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,200
that

1424
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:03,599
and as is the case in many things you

1425
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:06,079
know people read the initial but they

1426
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:07,280
never read the correction or the

1427
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,760
retraction it just doesn't yeah so and

1428
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:11,760
that's been you know called the um

1429
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:14,960
the death now of modern spiritualism

1430
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:17,760
um it sure you know before it died

1431
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:20,079
however um i have to say it went

1432
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,480
enormously big there were seances there

1433
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:25,440
was table tipping worldwide um and along

1434
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:27,280
came the first world war

1435
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:28,079
so

1436
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:31,599
lost

1437
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:34,960
off of often pathetically young souls

1438
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,760
and

1439
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:37,440
parents grieving loved ones at home

1440
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,160
wanting to contact the spirits

1441
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:42,960
stanford university's mrs stanford was

1442
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:45,280
was one of those

1443
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:48,400
just a very interesting time

1444
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,040
to have all this you know um and and it

1445
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,680
was international uh there there wasn't

1446
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:55,040
a country that didn't have a very

1447
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:57,839
well-known spiritualist um you're right

1448
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,960
you know almost always female um and

1449
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:02,799
something happened curiously in the

1450
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:05,040
eastern part of the united states there

1451
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:06,480
was a

1452
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:07,280
uh

1453
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:12,799
was the shall we say it was the reality

1454
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:15,599
tv aspect of life even way back then

1455
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:18,640
everybody who was anybody had a seance

1456
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:22,079
in their parlor after the salons yes and

1457
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:25,359
so uh you know to be invited uh you know

1458
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:28,640
to mrs uh franticaster's seance and it

1459
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:30,079
weren't going well you just weren't

1460
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,720
anybody um yeah well let's let's hold it

1461
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,559
right there carol we'll pick that up uh

1462
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,640
when we get back this is alan smith for

1463
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,400
paranormal now on the inception radio

1464
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:40,799
network um and i'm speaking with carol

1465
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:41,680
carl

1466
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:43,280
who is a

1467
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,480
prolific

1468
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:47,760
uh storyteller of a true story as we

1469
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:49,920
know of the fox sisters and uh we'll

1470
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:51,520
find out more about that when we get

1471
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:56,230
welcome back to paranormal now this is

1472
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:58,400
your host alan b smith on the inception

1473
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:01,520
radio network and i am with another iran

1474
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:02,400
host

1475
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:04,240
carol carl let me actually tell you a

1476
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,640
little bit more about um carol carl

1477
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:08,559
because i think this will also help

1478
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:10,160
inform the story that we're telling as

1479
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:13,040
well um and for many of you who listen

1480
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:14,799
to the inception radio network you are

1481
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,960
familiar with her but many of you um

1482
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:18,559
this is probably the first time hearing

1483
00:57:24,789 --> 00:57:23,520
her brilliant voice on air so uh carl

1484
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:24,799
i've said it before

1485
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:27,040
cowgirl is definitely my favorite voice

1486
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:28,640
at least on the inception radio network

1487
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:35,990
uh true story but uh carol carl is the

1488
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,079
oldest daughter of watson r carl and

1489
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:41,040
lewis r uh louis carl carl's birth was

1490
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:42,400
actually announced in the hollywood

1491
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:45,040
reporter as her father was then a news

1492
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:47,200
director and television news broadcaster

1493
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,319
in that city

1494
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:50,400
her mother sang live on the radio and

1495
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,880
was also a disc jockey back in the day

1496
00:57:56,870 --> 00:57:54,480
in grand rapids michigan where the

1497
00:57:58,630 --> 00:57:56,880
family moved when she was a child carl

1498
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,640
began doing musical theater in high

1499
00:58:02,549 --> 00:58:00,799
school and community theater followed

1500
00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:02,559
eventually the family moved back to la

1501
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:03,760
where carl

1502
00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:06,160
uh found professional work and joined

1503
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,799
actors equity association the stage

1504
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,200
actors union and the screen actors guild

1505
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,040
fascinated with all things paranormal

1506
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,680
since age 12 carol could constantly be

1507
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:17,599
found lugging home the latest books from

1508
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:20,000
the library on ufos spirits of charles

1509
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:21,680
fordian phenomena

1510
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:23,920
for the past decade

1511
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:26,000
carol's research has centered on the fox

1512
00:58:28,789 --> 00:58:27,040
sisters which we are talking about

1513
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,799
tonight and the roots of american

1514
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:30,240
spiritualism

1515
00:58:34,549 --> 00:58:32,319
and as we mentioned before

1516
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:34,559
she and her composer husband are in the

1517
00:58:39,510 --> 00:58:36,799
later stages of completing a musical

1518
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:39,520
based on the hydesville wrappings and um

1519
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,920
in the good spirit of of the hydesville

1520
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,280
fox sister wrappings taking us out of

1521
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:44,640
the break was girls just want to have

1522
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:46,720
fun by cyndi lauper

1523
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,559
perfect love her

1524
00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:50,640
all right carol so let's let's pick up

1525
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:52,880
the story um

1526
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:54,160
uh where were we

1527
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:56,799
you know i actually well uh we were you

1528
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,000
you made some brilliant point um

1529
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,640
about souls and spirits etc i think we

1530
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:04,400
were sort of a little bit after that we

1531
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:07,359
were but oh yeah so the the newspaper um

1532
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:09,040
princess article

1533
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:11,839
and um then they the the

1534
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:14,240
there is an article written by someone

1535
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:15,920
else that

1536
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:18,160
derives them and then later retracts

1537
00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:20,000
that but by then the damage is already

1538
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:23,200
dumb done on their reputation um so and

1539
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:24,799
we were kind of moving a little bit

1540
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,720
through history and i and i think that

1541
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:28,319
you're right with world war one the

1542
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:30,160
depression world war ii

1543
00:59:32,549 --> 00:59:31,040
um

1544
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:32,559
you know so there are a lot of people

1545
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,200
that wanted to commune but i think that

1546
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:37,520
the stigma was already there so a lot of

1547
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,960
this was moving like you said to these

1548
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:39,920
sort of

1549
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:43,200
you know guest invited um seances that

1550
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:45,040
you didn't really advertise in the

1551
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:48,000
newspaper or share on the you know the

1552
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,799
town

1553
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:50,960
hall bulletin you know

1554
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:54,240
right um but it was just so widespread

1555
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,920
that in a sense uh because of the nature

1556
01:00:02,309 --> 01:00:00,720
uh i guess one could say the societal

1557
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:02,319
placement of the individuals having

1558
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:05,200
these seances it took on

1559
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:08,000
uh some form of something other than a

1560
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:09,359
parlor trick

1561
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:11,040
um there were just too many times when

1562
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:13,760
people were flabbergasted by the results

1563
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:14,559
um

1564
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:15,440
so

1565
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:17,040
yeah um

1566
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:18,000
right

1567
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:19,520
i don't i don't know when would you was

1568
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:21,839
it do you think it's fair to say that

1569
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,000
um with the new age

1570
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:26,400
movement that the 80s was also sort of a

1571
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:28,240
rebirth of the of spiritualism in

1572
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:29,520
america

1573
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,680
or not even a rebirth is the best word

1574
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,280
but um

1575
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:35,280
you know it was

1576
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:37,599
well i guess reborn and i'm not sure i'm

1577
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:40,960
lacking the best words

1578
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:43,839
the urgency uh maybe the uh

1579
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,520
the evolution perhaps of of such um

1580
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:49,520
because we had the internet have been

1581
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:52,160
you know referred to as a as a modern

1582
01:00:56,309 --> 01:00:54,640
day non-spiritual stance the fact that i

1583
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,319
don't think there's anybody who has

1584
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:58,160
sleuthed around who hasn't stumbled upon

1585
01:01:02,549 --> 01:00:59,839
something that seems like whoa this is

1586
01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:02,559
synchronous or you know this is the last

1587
01:01:07,990 --> 01:01:05,599
thing i expected to stumble upon here um

1588
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:08,000
which kind of has you know sometimes one

1589
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,680
can feel uh

1590
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:11,359
just if you want to really go out there

1591
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:14,720
one can feel led directed

1592
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:18,240
by i don't know other intelligence i um

1593
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:24,390
i suppose it would be akin to intuition

1594
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:26,240
hunches

1595
01:01:31,750 --> 01:01:29,680
yes i mean sometimes i i wonder um

1596
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:31,760
could it be a higher intelligence or or

1597
01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:33,760
or something like you said like an

1598
01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:36,839
intuition um

1599
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,720
maybe it's almost like your own

1600
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:43,040
soul assuming you believe in a soul or

1601
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,960
consciousness um if you believe that

1602
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:46,559
consciousness is beyond just the brain

1603
01:01:51,270 --> 01:01:47,440
matter

1604
01:01:53,190 --> 01:01:51,280
um you can kind of expand out

1605
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,200
through time space continuum a little

1606
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,640
bit ahead of you

1607
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:55,760
and

1608
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:57,520
sort of make things happen to bring

1609
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,319
things to you so like like um like you

1610
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:02,559
know how our actual subconscious can

1611
01:02:05,510 --> 01:02:03,680
could be

1612
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:05,520
good for us because some we do things

1613
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:06,960
without having to think

1614
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,440
um yes but it could also undermine us

1615
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:11,359
and do things we're not even aware of

1616
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:13,920
and go what the hell um so maybe

1617
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:15,920
maybe our our super consciousness our

1618
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:16,960
actual

1619
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,880
greater soul conscious whatever it might

1620
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:21,520
be can can have can do similar things i

1621
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:22,880
don't know

1622
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,270
and i wonder what

1623
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:31,920
what what did the fox sisters believe in

1624
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:34,480
i mean what was did they have a firm

1625
01:02:39,030 --> 01:02:37,599
spiritual belief of their own as far as

1626
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:39,040
they were um

1627
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:41,119
they were initially methodists and i

1628
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:44,000
don't think they ever um put that away

1629
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,480
in fact each one of their seances was

1630
01:02:52,150 --> 01:02:48,559
begun the christian hymn before they

1631
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,160
ever said a word to contact spirits um

1632
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:54,799
sort of uh i see that as a kind of a a

1633
01:03:00,069 --> 01:02:58,319
preparation a cleansing um putting them

1634
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,079
and and this was said by everybody you

1635
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,559
know everybody at the table um i'm not

1636
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:04,400
sure who called which him selection it

1637
01:03:09,109 --> 01:03:07,200
was but um yeah

1638
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:09,119
so um

1639
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:10,880
i don't know that's a it's a real

1640
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:12,960
interesting thing um

1641
01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:15,039
most of the contact

1642
01:03:20,150 --> 01:03:17,440
uh outside of the time that the um

1643
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,160
carpet balls were thrown across an attic

1644
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:22,000
in the direction of calvin brown in

1645
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:25,440
rochester um carpet balls those were

1646
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:28,160
pieces of yarn wrapped together old

1647
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:31,200
fragments of clothing no longer in use

1648
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:34,000
generally wool that were then made into

1649
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,240
braids which made rug balls but they

1650
01:03:41,510 --> 01:03:38,960
started as these carpet balls and uh

1651
01:03:43,670 --> 01:03:41,520
calvin was apparently thoroughly pelted

1652
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:43,680
by the carpet balls being thrown by

1653
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:46,559
unseen hands

1654
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:48,079
and thoroughly

1655
01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:49,760
melted

1656
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:52,000
it's kind of it's kind of comical i mean

1657
01:03:55,029 --> 01:03:53,599
it's better than it's better than being

1658
01:03:56,549 --> 01:03:55,039
scratched

1659
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:56,559
it is definitely

1660
01:04:01,990 --> 01:03:59,119
there i i don't there isn't anything

1661
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:02,000
like that in uh in at least annelia's

1662
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:05,200
book the entire book um she was however

1663
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:06,480
at one point

1664
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:08,960
i remember reading this and it was kind

1665
01:04:15,109 --> 01:04:12,480
of a stretch for me to follow her around

1666
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:15,119
that corner so to speak but in in the

1667
01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,680
years that have transpired uh you know

1668
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:19,760
all bets are off she at one point leah

1669
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:22,559
was uh physically lifted through the air

1670
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:25,520
up several feet uh in the at the landing

1671
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,839
of a staircase and then gently placed

1672
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:29,440
back on the ground

1673
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:30,880
uh

1674
01:04:34,710 --> 01:04:32,079
you know

1675
01:04:37,190 --> 01:04:34,720
that's a hard one and the one here's so

1676
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:37,200
many modern day spiritualist uh ghost

1677
01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:39,839
hunters say um yeah my partner was

1678
01:04:43,349 --> 01:04:41,599
scratched or one time was thrown across

1679
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:43,359
a room that sort of thing and it it kind

1680
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:46,000
of fits but the fox sisters were

1681
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:47,599
their

1682
01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:52,960
psychological uh at one point there was

1683
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:54,160
something going on in the house in

1684
01:04:58,309 --> 01:04:56,240
rochester and lizzie who at that point

1685
01:04:59,829 --> 01:04:58,319
was about ken who was anne leah's

1686
01:05:02,549 --> 01:04:59,839
daughter uh

1687
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:02,559
was was uh asked to join in prayers and

1688
01:05:05,670 --> 01:05:03,680
she said

1689
01:05:07,430 --> 01:05:05,680
how can i pray when i feel more like

1690
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:07,440
swearing you know it was a it was a

1691
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:08,480
hardship

1692
01:05:12,309 --> 01:05:10,640
for everybody um not something they

1693
01:05:14,789 --> 01:05:12,319
brought on upon themselves they were not

1694
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:14,799
in it for the fame or the money

1695
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:16,240
there was no money

1696
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,480
yeah they weren't saying

1697
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:20,480
well they were paid something i i can't

1698
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:21,760
tell you what the amounts were they were

1699
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:24,319
more like offerings um

1700
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:27,119
and they also needed you know the

1701
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:29,599
financial support from this and that was

1702
01:05:33,910 --> 01:05:31,920
definitely part of the reason that they

1703
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:33,920
did accept money

1704
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,240
it became so bad that for instance and

1705
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:38,640
leah she didn't have any piano students

1706
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:40,400
shall we say uh it was just a bit too

1707
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,720
much for people so they

1708
01:05:46,470 --> 01:05:44,799
sort of you know um

1709
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:46,480
they were given lemonade and they made

1710
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:49,039
lemon cookies uh i mean lemons hello oh

1711
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:50,400
i wrecked that but you know where i'm

1712
01:05:54,789 --> 01:05:52,640
going with it um

1713
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:54,799
yeah it was um

1714
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:57,200
not a happy time and it became more

1715
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:00,000
unhappy um maggie had an interesting

1716
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:04,079
marriage to eliza kent kane uh with a

1717
01:06:10,309 --> 01:06:07,599
k-a-n-e who was an arctic explorer of

1718
01:06:13,430 --> 01:06:10,319
all things and his parents were so

1719
01:06:15,589 --> 01:06:13,440
against it that they ultimately you know

1720
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:15,599
ended the relationship and that was part

1721
01:06:20,069 --> 01:06:19,200
of what caused aggie a lot of grief

1722
01:06:24,069 --> 01:06:20,079
ah

1723
01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:24,079
um

1724
01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:25,760
one would think that

1725
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:27,280
um

1726
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:30,000
i i don't know i guess what what exactly

1727
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:31,359
do you think

1728
01:06:38,630 --> 01:06:36,400
people that but did they really all

1729
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:38,640
think that they were witches or

1730
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:40,240
did they just not trust them did they

1731
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:41,680
think they were liars

1732
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:44,000
what what scared people away most

1733
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:45,599
i think there was

1734
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:48,000
so much substantiation

1735
01:06:51,430 --> 01:06:50,000
uh and accuracy

1736
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:51,440
involved in

1737
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:54,480
not only what they did but the audience

1738
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:55,440
uh

1739
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,839
involved some of people who were you

1740
01:07:02,789 --> 01:06:59,680
know james fennimore cooper horace

1741
01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:02,799
greeley frederick douglass etc um isaac

1742
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:05,839
and amy post who were huge um

1743
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,720
quakers and abolitionists uh very well

1744
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:10,640
known and they came to the aid in

1745
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:13,280
support of the girls and that to me

1746
01:07:16,950 --> 01:07:14,400
um

1747
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:16,960
speaks of something now what frightened

1748
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:18,400
others

1749
01:07:23,829 --> 01:07:22,079
i don't know was it that uh the

1750
01:07:26,549 --> 01:07:23,839
could it have been something as curious

1751
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:26,559
as the fact that these um

1752
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:29,200
respected citizens pillars of community

1753
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,000
uh perhaps were in sway of the devil

1754
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:34,319
himself and because of their power uh

1755
01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:37,280
that was off-putting i i don't know i i

1756
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:39,119
really don't have a clue

1757
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:42,559
perhaps it's just that the balance of

1758
01:07:45,910 --> 01:07:43,599
people

1759
01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:45,920
who were exposed to this information and

1760
01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:47,680
turned their backs on it just weren't

1761
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:52,230
yeah

1762
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:53,440
and uh

1763
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:56,559
if if for instance this these were men

1764
01:07:59,589 --> 01:07:58,240
let's say do you think would make any

1765
01:08:01,109 --> 01:07:59,599
difference at all or would it have been

1766
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:01,119
the same situation

1767
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:04,000
oh no that's a hard one there was a man

1768
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:07,760
who did not indeed hold seances but um

1769
01:08:13,029 --> 01:08:10,480
hold on let me grab something

1770
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:13,039
his name was uh was he a doctor no no no

1771
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:16,560
just john john w edmonds

1772
01:08:22,829 --> 01:08:20,319
his john in fact john was a judge um he

1773
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:22,839
lived 1816 to 1874.

1774
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,080
um his public career he was a member of

1775
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,000
both branches of the new york state

1776
01:08:31,590 --> 01:08:29,520
legislature and for some time he was

1777
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:31,600
president of the senate he was a judge

1778
01:08:36,149 --> 01:08:33,759
of the supreme court of new york and he

1779
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:36,159
resigned that latter position because of

1780
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,560
his spiritual beliefs um

1781
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:40,480
he was interested in rochester back it

1782
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:41,920
says here uh

1783
01:08:47,749 --> 01:08:44,880
early in 1851

1784
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:47,759
he had experiences published august 1

1785
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:50,719
1853 in the new york courier an article

1786
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,759
to the public and uh well here's what he

1787
01:08:57,669 --> 01:08:55,199
says it's pretty brief

1788
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:57,679
um and in a later letter published in

1789
01:09:03,910 --> 01:09:01,040
the new york herald august 6 1853

1790
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:03,920
judge john worth edmonds wrote i went

1791
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,080
into the investigation originally

1792
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:08,400
thinking it a deception and intending to

1793
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:11,199
make public my exposure of it

1794
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:12,880
having from my research has come to a

1795
01:09:16,870 --> 01:09:14,400
different conclusion

1796
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:16,880
i feel that the obligation to make known

1797
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:20,159
the result is just as strong therefore

1798
01:09:25,349 --> 01:09:23,040
it is mainly that i give the result to

1799
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:25,359
the world i say mainly because there is

1800
01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:27,199
another consideration which influences

1801
01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:29,759
me and that is the desire to extend to

1802
01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:32,560
others a knowledge which i am conscious

1803
01:09:39,990 --> 01:09:36,960
cannot but make them happier and better

1804
01:09:41,349 --> 01:09:40,000
he just you know became a full bold

1805
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:41,359
spiritualist

1806
01:09:45,269 --> 01:09:42,560
and

1807
01:09:47,510 --> 01:09:45,279
so so that gives you an idea

1808
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:47,520
he did have personal experience with

1809
01:09:52,470 --> 01:09:49,120
deaths in his family i believe a

1810
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:52,480
daughter and ultimately his wife but his

1811
01:09:58,229 --> 01:09:55,679
he had physiological implications no he

1812
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,239
wasn't scratched but he was stuck he was

1813
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:01,280
poked um his thigh would feel as though

1814
01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:04,000
it was burning and he had physiological

1815
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:06,239
connotations that compelled him to say

1816
01:10:12,550 --> 01:10:09,440
and and this was simultaneous to um his

1817
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:12,560
contact and attempt to contact spirits

1818
01:10:18,630 --> 01:10:16,320
so um yeah he was pretty convinced

1819
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:18,640
what do you think

1820
01:10:23,189 --> 01:10:20,239
do you think

1821
01:10:25,110 --> 01:10:23,199
that

1822
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:25,120
he was um

1823
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:27,600
he had a predilection to yes yes i

1824
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:29,520
believe i know where you're going and

1825
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:30,800
that is

1826
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:33,760
well isn't that just the hardest part um

1827
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,239
you know it's uh

1828
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:39,120
there are ufo witnesses and enthusiasts

1829
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:41,120
who have had one experience

1830
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:43,040
and it marks them to the point where

1831
01:10:48,229 --> 01:10:45,760
they're unobjective and they keep

1832
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:48,239
they it seems to me that they continue

1833
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:50,800
then to

1834
01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:52,640
i don't want to say embellish they they

1835
01:10:57,030 --> 01:10:55,440
retell and in each telling i guess we're

1836
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,040
talking what the shaggy dog story the

1837
01:11:00,870 --> 01:10:59,760
fish story um and that's difficult

1838
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:00,880
because

1839
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:02,080
you know there's something wrong when

1840
01:11:05,990 --> 01:11:03,840
you believe something

1841
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:06,000
that you're semi-conscious is not

1842
01:11:08,950 --> 01:11:07,600
exactly accurate you know that that's

1843
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:08,960
not you know

1844
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:12,000
it's not forthcoming to say the least

1845
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:13,679
well sure yeah i mean you can apply that

1846
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:14,800
to anything

1847
01:11:19,270 --> 01:11:16,880
um paranormal

1848
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:19,280
certainly i've had experiences that

1849
01:11:24,390 --> 01:11:22,080
um i couldn't quite explain

1850
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:24,400
um but it doesn't mean they were exactly

1851
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:26,159
paranormal i don't have to take that

1852
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:28,239
leap but i keep my mind open to thinking

1853
01:11:33,669 --> 01:11:30,640
that yes that it might have been

1854
01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,679
um but yeah and i mean

1855
01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:35,679
sure and but in his case i mean there's

1856
01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:37,440
something emotional

1857
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:41,440
um yeah so while his words are are

1858
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:43,520
you know well formed

1859
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:44,640
um

1860
01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:47,520
i do wonder if he just really wanted to

1861
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:50,239
believe and if he made a pronouncement

1862
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:51,040
um

1863
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:52,880
in such a manner

1864
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:55,040
it sort of would protect himself from

1865
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:56,880
you know doing the things like i i've

1866
01:12:01,830 --> 01:11:59,520
checked into this it's real um therefore

1867
01:12:03,030 --> 01:12:01,840
and without saying it i'm not crazy you

1868
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:03,040
know

1869
01:12:08,070 --> 01:12:05,840
okay yes yes a substantiation of

1870
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:08,080
credibility yes yes

1871
01:12:14,310 --> 01:12:11,920
and it's so difficult to assess um even

1872
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:14,320
if you know somebody it can be difficult

1873
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:16,480
to assess exactly where they're coming

1874
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:18,640
from on the subject if there is you know

1875
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:20,640
a predisposition a pre-election as you

1876
01:12:26,470 --> 01:12:23,920
said to um to want it to be true you

1877
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:26,480
know i want to believe right

1878
01:12:29,110 --> 01:12:28,320
sure and the body that they found in the

1879
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,120
wall

1880
01:12:33,830 --> 01:12:31,199
um yes other than

1881
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:33,840
was it is it you know according to their

1882
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:35,040
skill set

1883
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,679
was it somewhat dateable how long it was

1884
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:39,440
in there could could scientists or

1885
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:41,280
investigators look at it and say

1886
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:42,560
yeah that that's about the right

1887
01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:44,719
timeline you know it's it rotted and

1888
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:46,400
dried as such

1889
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:48,480
as we would expect it was well at that

1890
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:51,679
point it was only bones and i just

1891
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:53,920
absolutely cannot i've never found

1892
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:55,040
anything

1893
01:13:01,270 --> 01:12:58,239
by way of a document or any sort of

1894
01:13:02,229 --> 01:13:01,280
autopsy or any sort of research done

1895
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:02,239
um

1896
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:07,440
set of bones because his head was

1897
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:09,760
ultimately uh and i don't even know

1898
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:11,679
where this was and whether this is just

1899
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:14,000
wild you know confabulation

1900
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:15,679
ultimately the skull was found somewhere

1901
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:18,640
else uh close to the cottage

1902
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,560
so but you know that's that's an

1903
01:13:24,470 --> 01:13:22,640
interesting question i i wonder whether

1904
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,480
i know this the national spiritual

1905
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:26,719
association that has the body and his

1906
01:13:31,350 --> 01:13:30,000
tin peddler box at lily dale um oh they

1907
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:31,360
know they have the

1908
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:34,320
yes yes yes and see once again we have a

1909
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:36,000
we have and in fact there was in the

1910
01:13:41,590 --> 01:13:39,199
past decade there's been uh they have uh

1911
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:41,600
the original cottage was moved to lilly

1912
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:44,960
dale and it burned or was burned uh i

1913
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:48,000
believe in the 1950s so there the

1914
01:13:52,709 --> 01:13:50,159
foundation remains and there was some

1915
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:52,719
stuff done to protect this and make it

1916
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:54,400
you know a national kind of not

1917
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:57,040
technically an absolute historic uh site

1918
01:14:02,950 --> 01:13:59,920
but to to protect it uh et cetera and i

1919
01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:02,960
guess there's some tourism to it um my

1920
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:05,040
big question of course is oh you know

1921
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:08,239
can somebody spring for uh getting some

1922
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:10,320
sort of dna analysis i'm not sure what

1923
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:12,880
could be substantiated um

1924
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,199
i don't know ethnicity so we we could

1925
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:17,280
substantiate this was you know a jewish

1926
01:14:24,149 --> 01:14:19,920
individual um and and we could also

1927
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:24,159
possibly do the timeline i have no idea

1928
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:26,560
yeah possibly yeah i was thinking then

1929
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:28,320
you know what else did they find to me

1930
01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:31,679
were there um what clothing that was

1931
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:34,239
you know still hanging from the body or

1932
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:37,920
um you know how how no and in fact

1933
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:40,000
well the only thing that this is grizzly

1934
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,280
the only thing i can say about the

1935
01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:43,440
clothing is that at least

1936
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,199
there is um in e lewis the

1937
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:49,440
esquire the attorneys i have to say that

1938
01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:51,199
or he'll come back and haunt me the

1939
01:14:58,310 --> 01:14:54,880
attorney's depositions there's evidence

1940
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:58,320
that uh for certain lucretia pulver the

1941
01:15:03,030 --> 01:15:01,040
serving girl who was in residence at uh

1942
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:03,040
the cottage at that point at the time of

1943
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:04,800
the murder was given

1944
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:07,679
uh a peddler's coach he recognized it as

1945
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,760
the coat worn by charles b rosner the

1946
01:15:14,229 --> 01:15:11,760
peddler um

1947
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:14,239
and so he was he was stripped down

1948
01:15:19,669 --> 01:15:17,120
completely i believe he was i know the

1949
01:15:23,669 --> 01:15:19,679
coat was uh ripped where they uh found

1950
01:15:25,910 --> 01:15:23,679
the 500 hidden in the lining so so we

1951
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:25,920
know that the coat at least was removed

1952
01:15:29,510 --> 01:15:26,960
um

1953
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:29,520
you know there was a movement uh in fact

1954
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:32,560
somebody went to the courthouse

1955
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:36,640
uh just the batavia new york and tried

1956
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:39,360
to bring this to a trial during this you

1957
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:41,040
know i mean right sort of in months

1958
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:43,360
after because it was as though uh we

1959
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:45,600
cannot let this this murdering john c

1960
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:48,159
bell walk he can't go free we have

1961
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:50,640
evidence by spiritual contact that he

1962
01:15:55,990 --> 01:15:52,880
murdered someone charles b rosner and we

1963
01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:56,000
just can't let him walk uh and the judge

1964
01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:57,840
and it went as far as the judge getting

1965
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:00,159
it got in front of a judge no obviously

1966
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:02,320
not judge john worth edmonds no he was

1967
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:05,040
later uh that would have been perfect uh

1968
01:16:08,790 --> 01:16:06,960
the judge said i cannot try

1969
01:16:11,189 --> 01:16:08,800
something on the words you know the

1970
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:11,199
testimony of a spirit that's just not

1971
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:12,719
you know it isn't the kind of witness we

1972
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:15,280
have in mind blah blah blah um

1973
01:16:21,030 --> 01:16:18,239
it's it's curious the idea of taking it

1974
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:21,040
to trial was undersigned by

1975
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:22,800
all kinds of members of the community of

1976
01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:25,840
hydesville who then at the end of this

1977
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:28,880
tract this uh long pamphlet published by

1978
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:30,159
e.e lewis

1979
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:32,719
all of these individuals exclusively

1980
01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:35,520
male 1 uh came forward and said

1981
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,400
that we are not accusing john cena they

1982
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:40,800
they redacted their accusations blah

1983
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:43,679
blah blah so you know it's early um

1984
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:45,760
early political political stuff going on

1985
01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:47,040
there

1986
01:16:54,070 --> 01:16:50,560
oh yeah i mean we see that even today

1987
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:55,910
like as long as ghosts around will be

1988
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:58,960
having the same social problems do

1989
01:17:02,709 --> 01:16:59,840
you know

1990
01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:02,719
that's ah there's a thought

1991
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:04,320
hopefully not who knows maybe a thousand

1992
01:17:08,630 --> 01:17:06,000
years from now we'll be

1993
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:08,640
naturally evolved and um all this will

1994
01:17:11,590 --> 01:17:10,800
be left behind um

1995
01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:11,600
okay

1996
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:13,040
so is it was there anything else that

1997
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,640
were that were missing

1998
01:17:17,189 --> 01:17:16,239
as a part of the of the story so far

1999
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:17,199
well they're

2000
01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:19,600
not exactly no because um

2001
01:17:24,470 --> 01:17:21,920
they you know the the girls they're all

2002
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:24,480
everybody's gone now um there is not i

2003
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:27,440
don't think any direct kin around um the

2004
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:30,320
girls are buried in i wanted to say

2005
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:33,440
green view cemetery uh someplace in the

2006
01:17:35,590 --> 01:17:34,800
state of new york

2007
01:17:37,910 --> 01:17:35,600
um

2008
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:37,920
their graves are available uh

2009
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:40,960
it's just it always gives me a giggle to

2010
01:17:46,149 --> 01:17:44,239
think how little known this is when uh

2011
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:46,159
my gosh how many you think of all the

2012
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:48,800
ghost hunting shows et cetera et cetera

2013
01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:51,520
and and yet the roots of this are just

2014
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:53,520
not very well known um there's a big

2015
01:17:59,110 --> 01:17:56,400
interest in south america um

2016
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:59,120
in fact there's a youtube i can't recall

2017
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:01,199
the title it's just as well it's a

2018
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:03,120
hilarious version

2019
01:18:06,870 --> 01:18:04,560
uh of

2020
01:18:09,350 --> 01:18:06,880
some sort of local

2021
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:09,360
show it's a play it's like

2022
01:18:15,750 --> 01:18:12,560
what you see is you see a man with a

2023
01:18:17,910 --> 01:18:15,760
blonde wig braids okay and he's dressed

2024
01:18:19,430 --> 01:18:17,920
up like a little girl and and and

2025
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:19,440
another one similar and those are the

2026
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:21,840
fox sisters and uh there's a spirit it's

2027
01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:24,480
sung in spanish and you know uh it's

2028
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:27,360
it's uh it's uh hydesville is what they

2029
01:18:31,189 --> 01:18:29,280
keep repeating so it's it's a very

2030
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:31,199
interesting thing there um there was

2031
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:32,960
interest in south america there was even

2032
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:36,000
some sort of a three-act play uh at one

2033
01:18:41,189 --> 01:18:38,719
time uh presented oh and

2034
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:41,199
there's something called the jiva or

2035
01:18:45,510 --> 01:18:42,719
geva i'm not sure how it's pronounced

2036
01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:45,520
geva um it's an equity house in fact uh

2037
01:18:49,189 --> 01:18:47,280
allison in rochester

2038
01:18:51,510 --> 01:18:49,199
and they did something about 10 years

2039
01:18:54,229 --> 01:18:51,520
ago it was a play written by a man named

2040
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,239
dan o'brien it was simply a two-act

2041
01:18:59,510 --> 01:18:56,960
stage play without music about the fox

2042
01:19:02,149 --> 01:18:59,520
sisters from the reviews i read um he

2043
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,159
took it into the dark part uh

2044
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:04,560
you know which is just someplace we sort

2045
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:07,040
of made our choice not to go because

2046
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:09,120
it's you know it's

2047
01:19:13,750 --> 01:19:11,280
it's not at least it wasn't the

2048
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:13,760
interpretation that jumped out to us

2049
01:19:24,709 --> 01:19:20,470
so what is your interpretation then

2050
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:24,719
that's this was the first contact made

2051
01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:26,480
with a purpose

2052
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:27,760
of

2053
01:19:32,229 --> 01:19:30,320
perhaps something to do with charles

2054
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,239
five children

2055
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:34,640
and there was never a message that i

2056
01:19:37,270 --> 01:19:36,400
came across to

2057
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:37,280
uh

2058
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:39,679
you know to really substantiate that to

2059
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:42,480
indicate it um

2060
01:19:47,750 --> 01:19:44,640
i it was almost as though this was a

2061
01:19:49,510 --> 01:19:47,760
first time this was a breakthrough in

2062
01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:49,520
contact the way it was

2063
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:50,480
so

2064
01:20:02,390 --> 01:19:58,640
people over a long stretch of time

2065
01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:02,400
i think it was a beginning that somehow

2066
01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:04,800
got lost in the shuffle you know in in

2067
01:20:09,910 --> 01:20:07,199
the lost in the zeitgeist

2068
01:20:11,910 --> 01:20:09,920
so are you saying it's something like um

2069
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:11,920
a ghost's version of being a prophet

2070
01:20:13,910 --> 01:20:13,040
kind of

2071
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:13,920
you know

2072
01:20:18,709 --> 01:20:16,159
breaking the mold and

2073
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:18,719
setting forth a new paradigm or

2074
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,120
oh that's good

2075
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:23,440
yeah i like that

2076
01:20:28,390 --> 01:20:25,920
yeah okay you can and

2077
01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:28,400
i mean do you think that

2078
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:29,520
i mean

2079
01:20:32,550 --> 01:20:30,480
is

2080
01:20:34,630 --> 01:20:32,560
yeah no go ahead good

2081
01:20:37,189 --> 01:20:34,640
no no it's just a no no no that's really

2082
01:20:38,149 --> 01:20:37,199
something to ponder um

2083
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:38,159
and then

2084
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:40,800
for me the question is uh

2085
01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:42,960
then and then what happened you know

2086
01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:44,719
where where is um

2087
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:47,199
the real specific follow-up it's not

2088
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:49,440
that it all went away but it sort of

2089
01:20:54,149 --> 01:20:51,760
went quiet and

2090
01:20:57,189 --> 01:20:54,159
yep we've got you know media that's

2091
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:57,199
filled with um people who talk to spirit

2092
01:21:02,310 --> 01:21:00,560
and people who um talk to spirits of the

2093
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:02,320
people sitting in their gallery you know

2094
01:21:07,830 --> 01:21:04,960
during these events um

2095
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:07,840
it's almost impossible to say

2096
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:10,159
who's accurate or you know who is

2097
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:11,840
truthful it's

2098
01:21:16,470 --> 01:21:13,120
it's just such a

2099
01:21:18,630 --> 01:21:16,480
it's just really dicey i i try

2100
01:21:21,189 --> 01:21:18,640
never to form an opinion you know that

2101
01:21:23,510 --> 01:21:21,199
that open mind uh

2102
01:21:25,510 --> 01:21:23,520
thing and it's hard to do

2103
01:21:27,669 --> 01:21:25,520
because there are there are times when

2104
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:27,679
what my gut is saying is oh my gosh this

2105
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:29,920
is absolutely hogwash you know this this

2106
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:32,400
is so contrived uh and some of it is but

2107
01:21:37,590 --> 01:21:35,679
i think for every bit that is hogwash uh

2108
01:21:39,510 --> 01:21:37,600
there are some legit

2109
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,520
i i think

2110
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:41,840
i don't think any i think all of us have

2111
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:44,159
the ability to

2112
01:21:48,630 --> 01:21:46,480
have these experiences

2113
01:21:51,430 --> 01:21:48,640
and i don't know why it's difficult for

2114
01:21:53,590 --> 01:21:51,440
some to even admit that and others it's

2115
01:21:56,149 --> 01:21:53,600
like yeah what's your point and i don't

2116
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:56,159
know what makes the you know how i don't

2117
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:57,920
know what the components are

2118
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:59,679
i don't have a clue

2119
01:22:03,510 --> 01:22:01,840
yeah i don't know um

2120
01:22:05,910 --> 01:22:03,520
but i do wonder

2121
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:05,920
in the house in lillydale

2122
01:22:10,709 --> 01:22:07,199
because

2123
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:10,719
is are there any signs of of

2124
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,440
happenings of of communication of

2125
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:16,239
hauntings i have not that's and now that

2126
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:18,800
is something that is fascinating i i

2127
01:22:23,830 --> 01:22:21,040
and you bring up a very good point i

2128
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:23,840
have not read of anything like that i

2129
01:22:28,629 --> 01:22:25,920
haven't read of

2130
01:22:30,310 --> 01:22:28,639
even any attempts although i definitely

2131
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:30,320
it's not something i check every day and

2132
01:22:35,590 --> 01:22:31,920
i could have missed something but

2133
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:35,600
i don't recall seeing information about

2134
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:36,880
local

2135
01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:41,360
reach these individuals

2136
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:42,880
you know and that that's sort of a mind

2137
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:44,880
blow i mean like why not you know isn't

2138
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,639
isn't that the logical step

2139
01:22:50,070 --> 01:22:48,719
um sure or maybe it's been done they're

2140
01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:50,080
just not sharing it because they don't

2141
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:51,600
want it to be

2142
01:22:54,870 --> 01:22:54,080
like a tourist attraction because

2143
01:22:56,310 --> 01:22:54,880
you know just because you're a

2144
01:22:58,229 --> 01:22:56,320
spiritualist living in lillydale doesn't

2145
01:23:00,390 --> 01:22:58,239
mean um you don't have to do some things

2146
01:23:02,070 --> 01:23:00,400
that are private unto yourself so

2147
01:23:04,070 --> 01:23:02,080
perhaps

2148
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:04,080
oh that's excellent and that has never

2149
01:23:07,910 --> 01:23:05,360
occurred to me

2150
01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:09,669
all right cool so

2151
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,030
we're coming up on the uh the third and

2152
01:23:19,510 --> 01:23:17,600
final uh break um you're listening to

2153
01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:19,520
paranormal now on the inception radio

2154
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:20,800
network and i'm

2155
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:23,360
fortunate to be speaking with carol carl

2156
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:26,400
who i've known as a virtual friend for

2157
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:28,080
for years and i say that

2158
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:30,800
because we've not yet met in person but

2159
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:32,560
someday someday

2160
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:34,000
but maybe you'll get your musical into

2161
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,400
new york and then that'll be fantastic

2162
01:23:40,629 --> 01:23:39,360
from your mouth to whoever's ears right

2163
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:40,639
oh yeah

2164
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:41,920
maybe so

2165
01:23:45,910 --> 01:23:43,920
um okay so yeah so hang in there and

2166
01:23:47,830 --> 01:23:45,920
well you know when we come back for the

2167
01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:47,840
last quarter of the show you know carol

2168
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:48,800
carl

2169
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:51,040
covers so many topics because she does

2170
01:23:56,149 --> 01:23:52,719
the daily headline news on the inception

2171
01:23:58,390 --> 01:23:56,159
radio network so she is quite um attuned

2172
01:24:00,470 --> 01:23:58,400
to the many trends that are going on in

2173
01:24:03,189 --> 01:24:00,480
the world of ufology and

2174
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:03,199
the paranormal so we'll ask her a little

2175
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:04,800
bit about that when we get back for the

2176
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:06,480
final quarter and you definitely don't

2177
01:24:11,189 --> 01:24:07,840
want to miss it because

2178
01:24:14,070 --> 01:24:11,199
um she knows of some of the most

2179
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:14,080
spectacular stories that you'll hear

2180
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:15,520
so

2181
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:17,600
and i can make weird noises too right

2182
01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:19,360
because if i say it with an accent yeah

2183
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:20,639
and if i say it with an accent it makes

2184
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:23,120
it more more fascinating okay

2185
01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:25,360
all right alan b smith on paranormal now

2186
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:31,990
back to paranormal now the zombie smith

2187
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:35,199
i am your host tonight and my uh kind of

2188
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:37,440
a co-host because we've co-hosted before

2189
01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:40,159
is uh carol carol carl from the

2190
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:42,159
inception radio network um she's also

2191
01:24:46,229 --> 01:24:44,480
the voice of the ufo headline news that

2192
01:24:47,830 --> 01:24:46,239
you hear five days a week on the

2193
01:24:48,790 --> 01:24:47,840
inception radio network is it more than

2194
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:48,800
five days a week or did you just just

2195
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:50,480
just just just my god yeah i was just

2196
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:52,719
about to sort of do this shameless uh

2197
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:55,360
you know ufo headline news plug we have

2198
01:25:02,229 --> 01:24:59,120
expanded um my producer joe champion

2199
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:02,239
inception radio network etc um

2200
01:25:06,550 --> 01:25:04,480
he had this great idea for a title off

2201
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:06,560
the beaten path i had wanted for a long

2202
01:25:12,390 --> 01:25:09,120
time to take the news um

2203
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:12,400
sort of outside the box um

2204
01:25:18,950 --> 01:25:16,239
you know not just ufos but um things of

2205
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:18,960
antiquity integrity ah i can't say it

2206
01:25:24,870 --> 01:25:21,360
old things that might connect you know

2207
01:25:28,629 --> 01:25:24,880
also to ufos peripherally um egyptology

2208
01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:28,639
cryptozoology etc uh you know uh the

2209
01:25:34,390 --> 01:25:31,600
sasquatch and and bigfoot and chupacabra

2210
01:25:37,270 --> 01:25:34,400
and you know the nessie um the luckness

2211
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:37,280
monster so and all these things they

2212
01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:39,360
they do connect i think and it's just a

2213
01:25:43,110 --> 01:25:41,199
question of you know how they do connect

2214
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:43,120
but so anyway back to your question yes

2215
01:25:48,709 --> 01:25:45,679
um the weekend saturday and sunday are a

2216
01:25:52,470 --> 01:25:48,719
new broadcast uh ufo headline news off

2217
01:25:54,709 --> 01:25:53,750
yeah and how long have you been doing it

2218
01:25:57,189 --> 01:25:54,719
for

2219
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:57,199
uh no no no let's see i think we're

2220
01:26:02,390 --> 01:26:00,159
coming up on four or five weekends now

2221
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:02,400
okay nice but it's it's all we're on i

2222
01:26:08,310 --> 01:26:04,800
heart radio and youtube and uh earth

2223
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:08,320
mysteries news etc etc lots of platforms

2224
01:26:12,550 --> 01:26:09,840
just you know if you type in ufo

2225
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:12,560
headline news.com that'll take you to

2226
01:26:19,189 --> 01:26:15,360
many sites that's the specific one but

2227
01:26:23,510 --> 01:26:19,199
yeah it's uh you know somehow actually

2228
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:23,520
we just lost in mars and i i just

2229
01:26:28,550 --> 01:26:26,159
uh personally speaking um i never got a

2230
01:26:30,229 --> 01:26:28,560
chance to meet him but his voice was the

2231
01:26:32,390 --> 01:26:30,239
first voice i heard coming out of

2232
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:32,400
inception radio network and

2233
01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:34,800
um it brought me back to the network and

2234
01:26:40,070 --> 01:26:37,440
i landed in the chat room and after a

2235
01:26:42,229 --> 01:26:40,080
certain length of time there um i got

2236
01:26:43,910 --> 01:26:42,239
invited to you had mentioned i had done

2237
01:26:47,270 --> 01:26:43,920
other shows on the network in your

2238
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:47,280
wonderful intro thank you very much um

2239
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:50,320
yes uh fringe radio with pat daniels and

2240
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:53,120
carol who used to be on out of a land

2241
01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:55,600
base station out of utah and they would

2242
01:27:00,629 --> 01:26:58,320
broadcast uh i think it was six nights a

2243
01:27:03,350 --> 01:27:00,639
week it was was it four hours a night it

2244
01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:03,360
was heaven um and at one point they had

2245
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:05,440
a guest on and i called in and asked the

2246
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:06,960
guest a question and she was a

2247
01:27:11,110 --> 01:27:08,239
spiritualist

2248
01:27:13,669 --> 01:27:11,120
and it ended up being me being asked in

2249
01:27:16,390 --> 01:27:13,679
chat by pat and carol to do their show

2250
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:16,400
oh my gosh so i cobbled a bunch of stuff

2251
01:27:20,709 --> 01:27:18,400
together and ultimately did their show

2252
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:20,719
which it just def

2253
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:23,440
morphed into heidi hollis the outlander

2254
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:26,000
asking me to do her show and i guess it

2255
01:27:31,030 --> 01:27:29,280
was the transfer of my bio um

2256
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:31,040
and credits are something to joe

2257
01:27:35,030 --> 01:27:32,960
champion and next thing i knew i was

2258
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:35,040
being invited to join the ufo headline

2259
01:27:39,270 --> 01:27:37,600
news team oh my god it was hilarious

2260
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:39,280
because there's a wonderful broadcaster

2261
01:27:44,149 --> 01:27:41,040
you can still hear her interstitially

2262
01:27:46,709 --> 01:27:44,159
amanda and i remember listening to her

2263
01:27:49,350 --> 01:27:46,719
news and saying out loud amanda i want

2264
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:49,360
your job yeah well you know we shared

2265
01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:50,960
the job for a while and then she got too

2266
01:27:55,030 --> 01:27:53,520
busy eventually to do it so um and then

2267
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:55,040
uh herman rohr who was our other

2268
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:57,840
broadcaster also got too busy so here i

2269
01:28:03,510 --> 01:28:01,520
am yes oh you know twist my arm it's it

2270
01:28:05,350 --> 01:28:03,520
is delightful

2271
01:28:06,870 --> 01:28:05,360
and but do you and how does the editing

2272
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:06,880
process work for that

2273
01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:08,239
do you do you do all the editing

2274
01:28:16,470 --> 01:28:13,750
it was uh someone tossed into tech

2275
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:16,480
waters way over her head i had done a

2276
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:18,080
lot of research and stuff and i knew how

2277
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:20,800
to you know uh copy and paste and file

2278
01:28:25,270 --> 01:28:23,120
and print and stuff like that but

2279
01:28:27,189 --> 01:28:25,280
um yeah well lo and behold i learned

2280
01:28:29,270 --> 01:28:27,199
audacity you know the waveform thing so

2281
01:28:31,590 --> 01:28:29,280
you can record it yourself which i do

2282
01:28:33,430 --> 01:28:31,600
and um finding the content that's not

2283
01:28:34,870 --> 01:28:33,440
the hard part it's really it's the

2284
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:34,880
vetting process that sometimes is a

2285
01:28:38,950 --> 01:28:37,280
little lengthy um i'll come upon stories

2286
01:28:41,270 --> 01:28:38,960
and unless i can you know

2287
01:28:44,229 --> 01:28:41,280
double check at least if the source is

2288
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:44,239
flaky uh or i'm not familiar with it um

2289
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:47,040
i just don't do it i've only done i've

2290
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:48,639
only done one

2291
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:52,080
witness first person report uh from a

2292
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:54,560
website i won't name and one of my

2293
01:29:00,310 --> 01:28:57,360
colleagues um shamed me for reading it

2294
01:29:02,070 --> 01:29:00,320
yes i read it it was lengthy it was it

2295
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:02,080
was pretty much an eye roll and so you

2296
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:05,040
know i don't go far out you know anymore

2297
01:29:09,750 --> 01:29:07,440
i learned my lesson so

2298
01:29:12,070 --> 01:29:09,760
and then again it's anybody's guess when

2299
01:29:15,030 --> 01:29:12,080
you're reading a ufo report sent in by a

2300
01:29:17,030 --> 01:29:15,040
witness who's not identified

2301
01:29:19,270 --> 01:29:17,040
it's anybody's guess when they say that

2302
01:29:21,350 --> 01:29:19,280
they know aircraft they've worked on

2303
01:29:23,669 --> 01:29:21,360
aircraft they were with this or that

2304
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,679
branch of the military and they know

2305
01:29:27,830 --> 01:29:25,679
that what they saw isn't something that

2306
01:29:30,310 --> 01:29:27,840
you know is your average run-of-the-mill

2307
01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:30,320
um something we see in the sky and you

2308
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:32,560
have to take that at face value um

2309
01:29:36,390 --> 01:29:33,840
occasionally someone will leave their

2310
01:29:37,910 --> 01:29:36,400
name or a contact phone number in their

2311
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:37,920
sighting i get the sightings for the

2312
01:29:44,229 --> 01:29:41,040
most part from ufo stalker and they're

2313
01:29:46,470 --> 01:29:44,239
also a huge database ufostalker.com and

2314
01:29:49,430 --> 01:29:46,480
then it's uh some of it is transferred

2315
01:29:51,870 --> 01:29:49,440
and edited somewhat and put on the ufo

2316
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:51,880
chronicles website another goodie also

2317
01:29:56,870 --> 01:29:54,480
openminds.tv they're fantastic

2318
01:29:59,189 --> 01:29:56,880
i am so indebted to all these

2319
01:30:01,830 --> 01:29:59,199
journalists you know especially the um

2320
01:30:04,470 --> 01:30:01,840
the science writers who put it in a what

2321
01:30:06,550 --> 01:30:04,480
i call the goldilocks zone it's a space

2322
01:30:08,870 --> 01:30:06,560
term but it's that you know it's not too

2323
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:08,880
long not too short not too dumb down not

2324
01:30:14,229 --> 01:30:11,600
too technical and something that doesn't

2325
01:30:17,430 --> 01:30:14,239
deteriorate deteriorate quickly into you

2326
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:17,440
know onionesque territory shall we say

2327
01:30:21,189 --> 01:30:19,679
so yeah that's a job it it's become a

2328
01:30:22,550 --> 01:30:21,199
lot easier you know i've been i think

2329
01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:22,560
this is about the fourth year i've done

2330
01:30:27,830 --> 01:30:25,199
this and uh it's uh i pretty much got it

2331
01:30:29,669 --> 01:30:27,840
down to a pseudo science

2332
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:29,679
all right well then um everybody let

2333
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:32,400
your incense light your candles um

2334
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,159
we'll let carol carl tell us about some

2335
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:36,880
of the uh the most intriguing story just

2336
01:30:41,110 --> 01:30:39,760
to come to light and um oh yeah and

2337
01:30:43,830 --> 01:30:41,120
taking us out of the break speaking of

2338
01:30:46,470 --> 01:30:43,840
candles was candela by uh buena vista

2339
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:46,480
social club um so yeah i am i am

2340
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:48,000
interested because when we had spoken

2341
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:49,840
earlier you had mentioned that

2342
01:30:53,110 --> 01:30:51,360
you feel like there are certain things

2343
01:30:54,470 --> 01:30:53,120
within the ufo

2344
01:31:03,430 --> 01:30:54,480
um

2345
01:31:06,870 --> 01:31:03,440
much coverage am i am i correct

2346
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,880
well an interesting thing treading is

2347
01:31:11,510 --> 01:31:08,480
and coverage because that's anybody's

2348
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:11,520
guess occasionally as i gather content

2349
01:31:16,629 --> 01:31:14,400
uh i'll notice that yikes is there a hot

2350
01:31:19,270 --> 01:31:16,639
spot developing down here around home of

2351
01:31:20,790 --> 01:31:19,280
louisiana what's what's up with that and

2352
01:31:22,070 --> 01:31:20,800
you know there was recently kind of a

2353
01:31:23,189 --> 01:31:22,080
cluster

2354
01:31:25,430 --> 01:31:23,199
in michigan

2355
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:25,440
those are interesting things especially

2356
01:31:34,550 --> 01:31:30,550
tallies and these are independent

2357
01:31:36,870 --> 01:31:34,560
witnesses as far as anybody can tell um

2358
01:31:37,669 --> 01:31:36,880
the thing that's currently seen i would

2359
01:31:39,990 --> 01:31:37,679
say

2360
01:31:41,669 --> 01:31:40,000
no you know cheryl costa who writes for

2361
01:31:43,510 --> 01:31:41,679
the syracuse new times and she has that

2362
01:31:46,870 --> 01:31:43,520
great she and her spouse and to have the

2363
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:46,880
ufo desktop reference oh my gosh um i

2364
01:31:49,990 --> 01:31:49,040
cover her columns frequently on the news

2365
01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:50,000
and

2366
01:31:55,510 --> 01:31:52,560
she just has a very interesting take on

2367
01:31:58,310 --> 01:31:55,520
things uh she writes kind of the

2368
01:32:00,149 --> 01:31:58,320
it's interesting it's it's societal you

2369
01:32:03,830 --> 01:32:00,159
know sociological

2370
01:32:06,790 --> 01:32:03,840
and space ufo kind of stuff but she has

2371
01:32:08,629 --> 01:32:06,800
chronicled a lot of orange spheres uh

2372
01:32:11,510 --> 01:32:08,639
which fly in pairs she would be the

2373
01:32:15,030 --> 01:32:11,520
go-to person or her book um

2374
01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:15,040
in terms of how many of each category

2375
01:32:17,189 --> 01:32:16,080
are seen

2376
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:17,199
the ones

2377
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:20,800
at these photos

2378
01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:22,320
they're photos that as far as i can i

2379
01:32:26,709 --> 01:32:24,320
mean i'm i'm certainly you know not the

2380
01:32:29,510 --> 01:32:26,719
mufon guy marc d'antonio i i cannot

2381
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:29,520
really you know photo analysis is not

2382
01:32:33,750 --> 01:32:32,400
exactly my it's not at all my area of

2383
01:32:35,990 --> 01:32:33,760
expertise but

2384
01:32:38,470 --> 01:32:36,000
uh sometimes there are photos that

2385
01:32:39,990 --> 01:32:38,480
clearly just one glance and you can say

2386
01:32:41,910 --> 01:32:40,000
yeah well there should be shadow here

2387
01:32:43,430 --> 01:32:41,920
and so this is probably cgi it's a hoax

2388
01:32:45,030 --> 01:32:43,440
blah blah

2389
01:32:46,149 --> 01:32:45,040
there are a lot of photos i've come

2390
01:32:47,830 --> 01:32:46,159
across

2391
01:32:50,149 --> 01:32:47,840
that are

2392
01:32:51,030 --> 01:32:50,159
very strange that they're circular

2393
01:32:53,430 --> 01:32:51,040
and

2394
01:32:56,470 --> 01:32:53,440
often the circular has a diffused kind

2395
01:32:58,310 --> 01:32:56,480
of cloudy hazy area at the edge

2396
01:33:01,669 --> 01:32:58,320
and in the center

2397
01:33:03,350 --> 01:33:01,679
uh there's a dot or there's something

2398
01:33:06,790 --> 01:33:03,360
some of these things that are more

2399
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,800
specifically detailed in the photographs

2400
01:33:11,030 --> 01:33:08,880
look like nothing more than a kind of

2401
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:11,040
cell under a microscope you can't

2402
01:33:13,910 --> 01:33:12,480
actually see the movement in in the

2403
01:33:16,070 --> 01:33:13,920
still shots you can't see the movement

2404
01:33:18,550 --> 01:33:16,080
or or the morphing the traveling the way

2405
01:33:21,189 --> 01:33:18,560
a cell would but they just look

2406
01:33:23,350 --> 01:33:21,199
biological somehow organic

2407
01:33:24,950 --> 01:33:23,360
um and for some reason they personally

2408
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:24,960
kind of make me go

2409
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:27,280
i wish it wasn't so late at night and i

2410
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:30,960
just looked at that okay um

2411
01:33:35,189 --> 01:33:33,679
that's interesting the the other thing

2412
01:33:37,430 --> 01:33:35,199
is this uh

2413
01:33:39,910 --> 01:33:37,440
sort of continuing saga of

2414
01:33:43,270 --> 01:33:39,920
witnesses reporting they see an object

2415
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:43,280
and then be beat wait for it here come

2416
01:33:50,550 --> 01:33:47,920
either the f-16 uh f-15 jets chasing it

2417
01:33:52,070 --> 01:33:50,560
and or black helicopters yeah you know

2418
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:52,080
that maybe yeah

2419
01:33:55,990 --> 01:33:54,239
yeah and that's usually accompanied or

2420
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:56,000
not a company followed by a report

2421
01:34:01,270 --> 01:33:58,480
saying no we didn't send anything out

2422
01:34:03,110 --> 01:34:01,280
and then a week later oh well we did but

2423
01:34:04,550 --> 01:34:03,120
we weren't chasing it was a part of a

2424
01:34:05,669 --> 01:34:04,560
routine thing

2425
01:34:07,750 --> 01:34:05,679
um

2426
01:34:09,990 --> 01:34:07,760
yes it's the same story it's like they

2427
01:34:12,070 --> 01:34:10,000
have the same rap almost every time you

2428
01:34:14,550 --> 01:34:12,080
hear these reports

2429
01:34:17,030 --> 01:34:14,560
right it's like how foolish and gullible

2430
01:34:19,189 --> 01:34:17,040
do they think we are you know it's a

2431
01:34:22,149 --> 01:34:19,199
it's just a and there's there's

2432
01:34:23,430 --> 01:34:22,159
something you know the idea that um

2433
01:34:26,470 --> 01:34:23,440
the average

2434
01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:26,480
individual as far as i can perceive has

2435
01:34:31,270 --> 01:34:29,040
a new interest in verifying news and

2436
01:34:33,510 --> 01:34:31,280
news sources i mean you know

2437
01:34:36,629 --> 01:34:33,520
faux news i was thinking about that

2438
01:34:39,110 --> 01:34:36,639
today faux news f-a-u-x pronounced foe

2439
01:34:41,030 --> 01:34:39,120
well it's foe news isn't it it's it's

2440
01:34:42,229 --> 01:34:41,040
faux news it's this is news that isn't

2441
01:34:43,510 --> 01:34:42,239
our friend

2442
01:34:45,669 --> 01:34:43,520
yeah

2443
01:34:48,229 --> 01:34:45,679
it really it really bothers me because

2444
01:34:50,149 --> 01:34:48,239
um you know especially when you

2445
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:50,159
become accustomed to this the paranormal

2446
01:34:54,310 --> 01:34:52,880
world and the news the paranormal yes um

2447
01:34:56,310 --> 01:34:54,320
you know like you said you kind of you

2448
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:56,320
look at the photo you analyze you keep

2449
01:35:00,709 --> 01:34:58,000
an open mind you read

2450
01:35:03,430 --> 01:35:00,719
um but you know you are looking you your

2451
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:03,440
eyes are open to scan for fraudulent um

2452
01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:05,199
sometimes you know that you know people

2453
01:35:09,430 --> 01:35:06,400
share all kinds of stories because

2454
01:35:11,830 --> 01:35:09,440
they're fun um yes but

2455
01:35:13,910 --> 01:35:11,840
but on the paranormal now facebook page

2456
01:35:15,669 --> 01:35:13,920
and this is not to knock anybody else

2457
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:15,679
but because because of the recent

2458
01:35:20,070 --> 01:35:17,840
problems we have with fake news i'm i'm

2459
01:35:22,310 --> 01:35:20,080
very careful about what i what articles

2460
01:35:23,990 --> 01:35:22,320
i share on there i want to feel that

2461
01:35:25,110 --> 01:35:24,000
there's some at least something valid

2462
01:35:27,669 --> 01:35:25,120
about that article i don't want it to

2463
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:27,679
just be someone's idea that they just

2464
01:35:32,709 --> 01:35:29,600
wrote on a on a

2465
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:32,719
uh literally like a website they created

2466
01:35:37,669 --> 01:35:34,800
to make it look like a news website and

2467
01:35:39,830 --> 01:35:37,679
and then write an article um yep and and

2468
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:39,840
i think that it's not just us but

2469
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:42,400
everybody should do this i mean you know

2470
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:44,400
i've i've someone called me out once i

2471
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:46,320
posted something on facebook and they're

2472
01:35:49,110 --> 01:35:47,760
like hey you know the source you're

2473
01:35:51,189 --> 01:35:49,120
getting from this you know it's

2474
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:51,199
definitely slanted towards this way of a

2475
01:35:55,030 --> 01:35:53,040
political persuasion

2476
01:35:56,310 --> 01:35:55,040
and i and i was like you know what you

2477
01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:56,320
know i'm kind of calling the black

2478
01:35:59,990 --> 01:35:57,360
kettle here

2479
01:36:02,950 --> 01:36:01,430
so and and i was like i'm glad you

2480
01:36:05,189 --> 01:36:02,960
called me on that you know because now

2481
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:05,199
and now i'm extra careful about you know

2482
01:36:10,870 --> 01:36:07,840
the things that i that i share in post

2483
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:10,880
and i'm doing it for myself too because

2484
01:36:15,189 --> 01:36:12,960
because especially if you're into the

2485
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:15,199
into ufos and you you

2486
01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:16,800
had an experience and you really believe

2487
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:18,320
it it only makes sense that you want to

2488
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:21,040
be a little bit more vigorous about

2489
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:23,280
um your claims and and what you choose

2490
01:36:27,830 --> 01:36:24,880
to believe i mean don't you want to

2491
01:36:29,990 --> 01:36:27,840
believe the truth and not um someone's

2492
01:36:32,470 --> 01:36:30,000
some that someone something proposed

2493
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:32,480
that is 100 speculation

2494
01:36:35,430 --> 01:36:33,360
oh

2495
01:36:38,629 --> 01:36:35,440
you know that that's it and what a

2496
01:36:40,950 --> 01:36:38,639
slippery slope because you know um what

2497
01:36:42,709 --> 01:36:40,960
whose truth is the ultimate truth and

2498
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:42,719
you know the the constant the light

2499
01:36:48,790 --> 01:36:46,320
motif of witnesses is i know what i saw

2500
01:36:50,709 --> 01:36:48,800
you know and uh in fact didn't uh james

2501
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:50,719
fox use that as a as a title for one of

2502
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:52,159
his documentaries regarding the figure

2503
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,040
right

2504
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:56,080
yeah yeah and it's sort of a

2505
01:36:58,470 --> 01:36:57,119
uh

2506
01:37:00,790 --> 01:36:58,480
you know

2507
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:00,800
it's just i saw something once with my

2508
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:03,920
family in the sky and it was very

2509
01:37:08,310 --> 01:37:06,560
strange because it sort of began with a

2510
01:37:09,990 --> 01:37:08,320
carol go out and look up at the sky i

2511
01:37:12,629 --> 01:37:10,000
don't know i was doing something mundane

2512
01:37:15,669 --> 01:37:12,639
alan like laundry you know and i it was

2513
01:37:18,470 --> 01:37:15,679
like oh yeah right like what no carol go

2514
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:18,480
out and look at the sky now um

2515
01:37:21,910 --> 01:37:20,000
it's interesting i've been asked was

2516
01:37:24,390 --> 01:37:21,920
that an internal voice was it the sound

2517
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:24,400
of my voice was it what what was that i

2518
01:37:29,270 --> 01:37:26,400
don't know it was just a sense

2519
01:37:31,270 --> 01:37:29,280
um i did no i did not hear any other

2520
01:37:33,510 --> 01:37:31,280
voice with any other character

2521
01:37:35,350 --> 01:37:33,520
inflection dialect you know

2522
01:37:36,470 --> 01:37:35,360
tonal quality no no it was just a sense

2523
01:37:38,070 --> 01:37:36,480
of so

2524
01:37:39,430 --> 01:37:38,080
i went out and looked at the sky went

2525
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:39,440
out actually the front door which was

2526
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:40,960
the most convenient

2527
01:37:45,109 --> 01:37:42,960
and i went down the front porch steps

2528
01:37:47,350 --> 01:37:45,119
and looked up at the sky and i don't

2529
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:47,360
know probably you know if straight ahead

2530
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:49,040
was 12 o'clock this would have been like

2531
01:37:53,669 --> 01:37:51,840
2 o'clock over me was what i can only

2532
01:37:55,189 --> 01:37:53,679
describe as a

2533
01:37:57,990 --> 01:37:55,199
yellow

2534
01:37:59,430 --> 01:37:58,000
sky snake that's kind of what we came to

2535
01:38:01,350 --> 01:37:59,440
call it it was

2536
01:38:02,470 --> 01:38:01,360
moving there wasn't any wind it was

2537
01:38:03,990 --> 01:38:02,480
probably

2538
01:38:06,070 --> 01:38:04,000
you know five o'clockish in the

2539
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:06,080
afternoon uh

2540
01:38:11,030 --> 01:38:08,880
and this thing was moving in such a way

2541
01:38:13,590 --> 01:38:11,040
that it really it looked like a water

2542
01:38:15,910 --> 01:38:13,600
snake moving through water but it was

2543
01:38:17,830 --> 01:38:15,920
something yellow in the sky i would say

2544
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:17,840
maybe 100 feet long

2545
01:38:22,149 --> 01:38:19,280
um

2546
01:38:24,310 --> 01:38:22,159
how high it was probably

2547
01:38:26,390 --> 01:38:24,320
less than 300 feet and it stayed there

2548
01:38:27,189 --> 01:38:26,400
long enough for me to go inside and you

2549
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:27,199
know

2550
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:28,639
get my son and daughter and my husband

2551
01:38:33,510 --> 01:38:31,280
and we all watched this until it just

2552
01:38:36,070 --> 01:38:33,520
got so high we couldn't see it

2553
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,080
and i have found some shots of something

2554
01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:38,800
similar um and i don't even remember the

2555
01:38:42,709 --> 01:38:40,480
geo location but

2556
01:38:44,629 --> 01:38:42,719
yeah it was uh definitely something and

2557
01:38:47,350 --> 01:38:44,639
of course you know the onset of it uh

2558
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:47,360
how it came about was also very curious

2559
01:38:51,270 --> 01:38:49,199
there is that thing you know social

2560
01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:51,280
contact is a big deal

2561
01:38:56,310 --> 01:38:54,639
um with ufos now um not social conscious

2562
01:38:59,750 --> 01:38:56,320
contact well who knows maybe it is

2563
01:39:02,870 --> 01:38:59,760
social but uh conscious contact um the

2564
01:39:04,870 --> 01:39:02,880
calling up of ufos a lot of research

2565
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:04,880
groups have had some success

2566
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:06,400
yeah well

2567
01:39:09,270 --> 01:39:08,080
talking to um

2568
01:39:11,189 --> 01:39:09,280
uh dr

2569
01:39:13,990 --> 01:39:11,199
burks which who you are familiar with

2570
01:39:15,350 --> 01:39:14,000
yes speaking of contact right yeah right

2571
01:39:17,430 --> 01:39:15,360
he and i had that had that discussion

2572
01:39:20,070 --> 01:39:17,440
too and he he said you know i can't i

2573
01:39:22,390 --> 01:39:20,080
can't explain it but for some reason

2574
01:39:24,070 --> 01:39:22,400
people will be going through a phase

2575
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:24,080
a period of time where they're able to

2576
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:27,360
call call down or you know whatever the

2577
01:39:31,830 --> 01:39:29,440
term you would like to use terminology

2578
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:31,840
right ufo or what have you

2579
01:39:36,629 --> 01:39:34,239
and um and then it would just it would

2580
01:39:37,590 --> 01:39:36,639
pass and and it might come back it may

2581
01:39:42,229 --> 01:39:37,600
not

2582
01:39:44,070 --> 01:39:42,239
um it's a very odd thing because i and i

2583
01:39:45,350 --> 01:39:44,080
asked him and i'm sure you'll remember

2584
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:45,360
um

2585
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:49,840
yes uh yahweh

2586
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:52,560
yahweh yahweh yes okay

2587
01:39:57,669 --> 01:39:54,400
yeah and that was a perfect example i

2588
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:57,679
mean i i literally looked at this video

2589
01:40:01,750 --> 01:40:00,239
and my mind is blown because he's doing

2590
01:40:02,790 --> 01:40:01,760
this like the video with the news

2591
01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:02,800
reporter

2592
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:06,560
and right and and so this wasn't staged

2593
01:40:10,550 --> 01:40:09,119
uh you know it was astounding that this

2594
01:40:13,109 --> 01:40:10,560
guy was able to do this and then he

2595
01:40:14,709 --> 01:40:13,119
disappeared and i don't know yeah what

2596
01:40:15,590 --> 01:40:14,719
happened to him was there a punch line

2597
01:40:17,189 --> 01:40:15,600
with that

2598
01:40:19,109 --> 01:40:17,199
no no i think i think what happened to

2599
01:40:20,950 --> 01:40:19,119
him he's he probably like we had just

2600
01:40:23,430 --> 01:40:20,960
like you know dr bertson i had discussed

2601
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:23,440
is that at some point he probably was

2602
01:40:26,550 --> 01:40:25,199
unable to do it

2603
01:40:28,310 --> 01:40:26,560
um and so

2604
01:40:29,669 --> 01:40:28,320
imagine imagine

2605
01:40:32,070 --> 01:40:29,679
how easy it is to call someone a

2606
01:40:33,830 --> 01:40:32,080
charlatan when let's say for two years

2607
01:40:35,350 --> 01:40:33,840
you're able to do this thing

2608
01:40:36,950 --> 01:40:35,360
and then you go oh meet me here i'm

2609
01:40:38,229 --> 01:40:36,960
going to do it and that doesn't happen

2610
01:40:40,149 --> 01:40:38,239
oh me here i'm going to do it and then

2611
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:40,159
it doesn't happen yes and you don't know

2612
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:40,960
why

2613
01:40:43,830 --> 01:40:41,920
yes

2614
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,840
exactly it goes you know from whence it

2615
01:40:46,709 --> 01:40:45,360
came you know that's something that

2616
01:40:48,709 --> 01:40:46,719
happened to the fox sisters in fact

2617
01:40:50,229 --> 01:40:48,719
there's a little parallel um just

2618
01:40:52,629 --> 01:40:50,239
briefly they there was a time when

2619
01:40:54,950 --> 01:40:52,639
spirit stopped contacting them they had

2620
01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:54,960
no idea why they felt abandoned they

2621
01:40:58,950 --> 01:40:56,480
felt that they had signed on for this

2622
01:41:00,709 --> 01:40:58,960
ultimately because they had no choice

2623
01:41:02,870 --> 01:41:00,719
and you know they were going forward

2624
01:41:05,910 --> 01:41:02,880
with it and there was no contact they

2625
01:41:09,030 --> 01:41:05,920
didn't fake anything uh you know and

2626
01:41:10,950 --> 01:41:09,040
ultimately spirits returned um

2627
01:41:13,430 --> 01:41:10,960
and the title for that chapter in in

2628
01:41:15,430 --> 01:41:13,440
leah's book uh which is the missing link

2629
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:15,440
of modern spiritualism by the way it's

2630
01:41:20,470 --> 01:41:17,600
it's hard to find it's easier now uh

2631
01:41:21,910 --> 01:41:20,480
there are a few more copies but um right

2632
01:41:23,189 --> 01:41:21,920
right she um

2633
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:23,199
that that's something she notes in the

2634
01:41:28,790 --> 01:41:26,639
book uh the chapter title is uh a deal

2635
01:41:31,430 --> 01:41:28,800
from the spirits yes they they kind of

2636
01:41:33,669 --> 01:41:31,440
left but they came back so yahweh uh

2637
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:33,679
that's you know it's very interesting

2638
01:41:38,870 --> 01:41:36,560
that idea of moving through

2639
01:41:41,430 --> 01:41:38,880
a time when you can contact and then for

2640
01:41:43,910 --> 01:41:41,440
some reason there is no contact that's

2641
01:41:45,990 --> 01:41:43,920
that's very very curious

2642
01:41:48,149 --> 01:41:46,000
curious and probably frustrating as hell

2643
01:41:50,790 --> 01:41:48,159
um i mentioned

2644
01:41:52,709 --> 01:41:50,800
you had mentioned um that you noticed

2645
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:52,719
this sort of like biological

2646
01:41:57,430 --> 01:41:54,320
um

2647
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:57,440
somethingness yes the yellowstone snake

2648
01:42:03,189 --> 01:42:02,070
in the photos right and i'm and i'm

2649
01:42:05,189 --> 01:42:03,199
wondering

2650
01:42:06,870 --> 01:42:05,199
is there a trend going on with that

2651
01:42:09,270 --> 01:42:06,880
specifically or is it just because we're

2652
01:42:10,070 --> 01:42:09,280
getting better photos

2653
01:42:12,550 --> 01:42:10,080
oh

2654
01:42:15,430 --> 01:42:12,560
yeah now see that that's something that

2655
01:42:17,830 --> 01:42:15,440
one i suppose could find some sort of uh

2656
01:42:19,030 --> 01:42:17,840
demographic some sort of stats on that

2657
01:42:21,510 --> 01:42:19,040
um

2658
01:42:23,990 --> 01:42:21,520
there was there was something about a

2659
01:42:25,030 --> 01:42:24,000
year ago there was a sighting in upstate

2660
01:42:26,070 --> 01:42:25,040
new york

2661
01:42:28,390 --> 01:42:26,080
um

2662
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:28,400
reported to ufo stalker

2663
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:30,480
and um

2664
01:42:34,470 --> 01:42:32,560
obviously because the news is not video

2665
01:42:36,790 --> 01:42:34,480
i i can only refer to the links that can

2666
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:36,800
show the photos but i often will sort of

2667
01:42:42,070 --> 01:42:38,400
you know attempt to give a description

2668
01:42:44,149 --> 01:42:42,080
of them to describe the indescribable um

2669
01:42:45,990 --> 01:42:44,159
there was a gentleman who photographed

2670
01:42:47,510 --> 01:42:46,000
from his window and you can see there's

2671
01:42:49,669 --> 01:42:47,520
sort of a backup camera at some point

2672
01:42:51,109 --> 01:42:49,679
you can see him photographing out the

2673
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:51,119
window um

2674
01:42:55,270 --> 01:42:53,840
and and and yet this has a bare-bones

2675
01:42:57,189 --> 01:42:55,280
legitimacy it doesn't seem like

2676
01:42:59,270 --> 01:42:57,199
something that was staged

2677
01:43:02,470 --> 01:42:59,280
and what he photographs and

2678
01:43:04,550 --> 01:43:02,480
gets close-ups zooms in on um

2679
01:43:06,950 --> 01:43:04,560
is again this circular object with a

2680
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:06,960
haze at the outside something in the

2681
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:08,480
center and in this case

2682
01:43:13,030 --> 01:43:10,800
you know alan it was sort of like okay

2683
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:13,040
this is uh creep out level number 10 and

2684
01:43:17,350 --> 01:43:15,600
i'm just gonna go away now um

2685
01:43:19,109 --> 01:43:17,360
i had to leave those shots because and

2686
01:43:21,830 --> 01:43:19,119
and especially the video footage because

2687
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:21,840
this object this circular thing with the

2688
01:43:26,310 --> 01:43:24,560
stuff in the middle began to morph you

2689
01:43:28,470 --> 01:43:26,320
could see you could see it sort of

2690
01:43:31,669 --> 01:43:28,480
moving around in this case it was moving

2691
01:43:33,189 --> 01:43:31,679
like a cell under a microscope and uh it

2692
01:43:35,669 --> 01:43:33,199
it morphed into

2693
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:35,679
sort of a rectangular shape and then

2694
01:43:39,430 --> 01:43:37,440
sort of a lozenge shape and ultimately

2695
01:43:41,750 --> 01:43:39,440
disappeared moved further away and

2696
01:43:44,390 --> 01:43:41,760
vanished it's so bizarre

2697
01:43:46,950 --> 01:43:44,400
uh it is travis waltman he described

2698
01:43:50,629 --> 01:43:46,960
didn't he describe that the inside

2699
01:43:53,109 --> 01:43:50,639
of the ufo is almost organic

2700
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:53,119
interesting i i remember

2701
01:43:56,229 --> 01:43:55,040
that there were organic elements to it

2702
01:43:58,550 --> 01:43:56,239
or

2703
01:44:01,030 --> 01:43:58,560
yes it's something to do with uh

2704
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:01,040
some at one point was he close to a what

2705
01:44:05,109 --> 01:44:03,360
looked like a control panel

2706
01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:05,119
that's kind of a takeaway that i have

2707
01:44:10,470 --> 01:44:07,600
right and i wish i could remember that

2708
01:44:12,070 --> 01:44:10,480
little that facet of it that uh was the

2709
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:12,080
organic part

2710
01:44:16,870 --> 01:44:14,400
i i love that that quote you know i'm

2711
01:44:18,790 --> 01:44:16,880
hoping it's not apocryphal the quote uh

2712
01:44:20,790 --> 01:44:18,800
that came around about five years ago

2713
01:44:22,790 --> 01:44:20,800
from travis walton that uh if he had it

2714
01:44:25,750 --> 01:44:22,800
to do over again he would never have

2715
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:25,760
gotten out of that truck right yeah yeah

2716
01:44:30,070 --> 01:44:28,560
yeah yeah and then but but the lovely

2717
01:44:33,590 --> 01:44:30,080
takeaway from that is

2718
01:44:37,109 --> 01:44:33,600
that i believe at this point he feels

2719
01:44:39,270 --> 01:44:37,119
that he was harmed he was damaged by

2720
01:44:41,109 --> 01:44:39,280
whatever blue ray came out of the bottom

2721
01:44:43,270 --> 01:44:41,119
of that craft initially

2722
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:43,280
and that he was taken into the ship and

2723
01:44:46,629 --> 01:44:45,040
they worked on him they repaired the

2724
01:44:49,270 --> 01:44:46,639
damage that had been done

2725
01:44:50,229 --> 01:44:49,280
like almost as if it was an accident

2726
01:44:51,270 --> 01:44:50,239
yes

2727
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:51,280
right

2728
01:44:56,229 --> 01:44:53,280
i like that

2729
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:56,239
that's nice but then um yeah

2730
01:44:59,830 --> 01:44:57,600
they need to get better cameras on their

2731
01:45:01,270 --> 01:44:59,840
ufos so they can stop beaming people

2732
01:45:04,070 --> 01:45:01,280
accidentally

2733
01:45:05,189 --> 01:45:04,080
you know it works yeah yeah exactly

2734
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:05,199
unless they're unless someone was

2735
01:45:09,030 --> 01:45:07,760
training that day i don't know but um

2736
01:45:10,310 --> 01:45:09,040
that could be because when you're when

2737
01:45:12,629 --> 01:45:10,320
you're riding the trains in new york you

2738
01:45:14,870 --> 01:45:12,639
know when somebody's training

2739
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:14,880
really oh my god oh my god that breaks

2740
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:16,960
to stop and everyone's like rocking in

2741
01:45:20,709 --> 01:45:18,880
the train

2742
01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:20,719
you get seasick

2743
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:21,600
yeah

2744
01:45:26,229 --> 01:45:23,840
they should get free rides on those days

2745
01:45:27,669 --> 01:45:26,239
they should that's a good idea yeah yeah

2746
01:45:29,510 --> 01:45:27,679
well something else i wanted to touch on

2747
01:45:32,709 --> 01:45:29,520
briefly is

2748
01:45:35,430 --> 01:45:32,719
an interesting uptake uptick rather on

2749
01:45:37,590 --> 01:45:35,440
the uh take of

2750
01:45:39,270 --> 01:45:37,600
well it's cartoon strips for instance

2751
01:45:41,270 --> 01:45:39,280
the columns that the cartoon strips that

2752
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:41,280
run in the los angeles times

2753
01:45:46,149 --> 01:45:43,600
oh i i won't even begin to name them but

2754
01:45:47,350 --> 01:45:46,159
i would say every other one

2755
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:47,360
deals with

2756
01:45:53,270 --> 01:45:49,920
either a ufo abduction or a flying

2757
01:45:55,830 --> 01:45:53,280
saucer scene or aliens coming down to do

2758
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:55,840
this or that i mean and and one of them

2759
01:46:00,470 --> 01:45:57,520
is even currently referring to alan

2760
01:46:02,870 --> 01:46:00,480
stern who's one of the honchos at nasa

2761
01:46:04,629 --> 01:46:02,880
uh using him by name and and they've got

2762
01:46:08,470 --> 01:46:04,639
a website that you know anybody reading

2763
01:46:10,229 --> 01:46:08,480
can link to to get scientific nasa uh

2764
01:46:11,669 --> 01:46:10,239
information so

2765
01:46:13,990 --> 01:46:11,679
and then of course there's that nasa

2766
01:46:15,350 --> 01:46:14,000
joke never a straight answer

2767
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:15,360
n-a-s-a

2768
01:46:18,709 --> 01:46:17,199
yeah but but i just find it very

2769
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:18,719
interesting uh

2770
01:46:21,590 --> 01:46:19,840
you know

2771
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:21,600
there just seems to be so sort of an

2772
01:46:24,950 --> 01:46:23,040
extra interest

2773
01:46:27,350 --> 01:46:24,960
maybe there's a correlation to people

2774
01:46:29,189 --> 01:46:27,360
paying attention to or alternative news

2775
01:46:31,189 --> 01:46:29,199
sources you know

2776
01:46:33,350 --> 01:46:31,199
i don't know what accounts for it but

2777
01:46:36,310 --> 01:46:33,360
it's definitely um

2778
01:46:38,709 --> 01:46:36,320
just definitely that the ufo um and

2779
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:38,719
alien references are are like i don't

2780
01:46:48,709 --> 01:46:46,229
and what do you think is the cause

2781
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:48,719
i don't oh you asked me all these

2782
01:46:52,709 --> 01:46:50,560
wonderful questions that i can't answer

2783
01:46:54,070 --> 01:46:52,719
oh no this is terrific this is what it's

2784
01:46:56,390 --> 01:46:54,080
all about but

2785
01:46:58,870 --> 01:46:56,400
i i don't know i

2786
01:47:00,709 --> 01:46:58,880
there i'm pretty sure we could go on to

2787
01:47:02,790 --> 01:47:00,719
some forms you know that we could access

2788
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:02,800
in 30 seconds or less and and find out

2789
01:47:07,590 --> 01:47:05,119
that there is a conspiracy that all of

2790
01:47:10,390 --> 01:47:07,600
this is part of a a run-up to a big

2791
01:47:12,870 --> 01:47:10,400
event you know um a bunch of guys in uh

2792
01:47:14,310 --> 01:47:12,880
as ian punnett that dj wonderful dj from

2793
01:47:17,030 --> 01:47:14,320
coast to coast used to say a bunch of

2794
01:47:20,709 --> 01:47:17,040
guys in loose cahoots and that we were

2795
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:20,719
moving toward a some sort of false flag

2796
01:47:24,149 --> 01:47:23,040
you know some sort of anti

2797
01:47:26,790 --> 01:47:24,159
and that even

2798
01:47:29,189 --> 01:47:26,800
even talk of disclosure is part of that

2799
01:47:31,270 --> 01:47:29,199
and i don't think that you know i'm i'm

2800
01:47:32,950 --> 01:47:31,280
not really in that line of folks at this

2801
01:47:35,270 --> 01:47:32,960
point um

2802
01:47:37,669 --> 01:47:35,280
although things could change um you know

2803
01:47:39,669 --> 01:47:37,679
there there was talk during the exercise

2804
01:47:42,709 --> 01:47:39,679
was it this last summer the jade helm

2805
01:47:44,870 --> 01:47:42,719
exercise i think primarily in texas that

2806
01:47:47,109 --> 01:47:44,880
was a a couple years ago actually

2807
01:47:48,550 --> 01:47:47,119
because geez you know time flies when

2808
01:47:49,990 --> 01:47:48,560
you're reporting on yeah i remember

2809
01:47:52,070 --> 01:47:50,000
everybody made such a big deal about it

2810
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:52,080
and then nothing happened

2811
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:54,320
no no and and uh you could you could

2812
01:47:58,550 --> 01:47:55,840
also read some comments under some of

2813
01:48:00,870 --> 01:47:58,560
the articles um at your own risk

2814
01:48:02,709 --> 01:48:00,880
that indicated that this is you know

2815
01:48:04,229 --> 01:48:02,719
same old same old if they had been doing

2816
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:04,239
these exercises you know and the

2817
01:48:07,990 --> 01:48:06,400
community was not only very much aware

2818
01:48:09,350 --> 01:48:08,000
but accepting of it you know they made

2819
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:09,360
everybody at home and got out of the way

2820
01:48:11,910 --> 01:48:10,560
when they had to

2821
01:48:13,430 --> 01:48:11,920
yeah so

2822
01:48:16,550 --> 01:48:13,440
no it was it wasn't the end of the world

2823
01:48:19,030 --> 01:48:16,560
they weren't taking over texas and no um

2824
01:48:20,149 --> 01:48:19,040
we have a handful of minutes left so if

2825
01:48:22,790 --> 01:48:20,159
there's anything else you want to focus

2826
01:48:23,669 --> 01:48:22,800
on you jump in there

2827
01:48:24,390 --> 01:48:23,679
well

2828
01:48:35,109 --> 01:48:24,400
i

2829
01:48:37,109 --> 01:48:35,119
that

2830
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:37,119
everything is connected for such a long

2831
01:48:39,910 --> 01:48:39,119
time i don't even remember when that you

2832
01:48:42,950 --> 01:48:39,920
know

2833
01:48:44,830 --> 01:48:42,960
uh it's it coalesces as the days go by

2834
01:48:47,750 --> 01:48:44,840
and then the years go by

2835
01:48:50,229 --> 01:48:47,760
um i i don't know it's you know i like

2836
01:48:52,950 --> 01:48:50,239
your tagline live in the mystery and boy

2837
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:55,830
yeah and um i think that one for one you

2838
01:49:00,629 --> 01:48:57,360
can't really do much

2839
01:49:03,590 --> 01:49:00,639
about it anyway um but two i feel like

2840
01:49:04,709 --> 01:49:03,600
that there's a kind of a um

2841
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:04,719
ah

2842
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:07,119
i don't know there's a piece in it much

2843
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,560
like

2844
01:49:12,229 --> 01:49:10,400
when you finally accept life that you'll

2845
01:49:13,669 --> 01:49:12,239
you'll never hit this absolute peak of

2846
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:13,679
happiness because

2847
01:49:16,229 --> 01:49:14,639
you know

2848
01:49:18,709 --> 01:49:16,239
life is constantly up and down so

2849
01:49:20,229 --> 01:49:18,719
there's no like i finally got there i am

2850
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:20,239
happy and i'm gonna stay happy for the

2851
01:49:24,229 --> 01:49:22,000
rest of my life you know i think it's of

2852
01:49:25,510 --> 01:49:24,239
the same vein it's like just like sort

2853
01:49:27,910 --> 01:49:25,520
of embracing

2854
01:49:29,030 --> 01:49:27,920
you know letting go and enjoying the

2855
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:29,040
mystery

2856
01:49:34,229 --> 01:49:31,520
and and to me that

2857
01:49:36,550 --> 01:49:34,239
um that's where the real joy of it all

2858
01:49:38,709 --> 01:49:36,560
comes in is is accepting that i'm not

2859
01:49:41,030 --> 01:49:38,719
always gonna know the answer but chasing

2860
01:49:44,629 --> 01:49:41,040
the answer is fun

2861
01:49:46,709 --> 01:49:44,639
it is fun and oh don't we stumble upon

2862
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:46,719
other things that seem like clues you

2863
01:49:50,629 --> 01:49:48,880
know i think that really would sum it up

2864
01:49:53,189 --> 01:49:50,639
the other day it occurred to me that i

2865
01:49:55,510 --> 01:49:53,199
don't remember a time in my life when i

2866
01:49:57,270 --> 01:49:55,520
wasn't looking for clues

2867
01:49:58,870 --> 01:49:57,280
i don't even know you know know sherlock

2868
01:50:00,870 --> 01:49:58,880
here you're right by the way he would

2869
01:50:02,629 --> 01:50:00,880
have loved the fox sister story uh i

2870
01:50:03,990 --> 01:50:02,639
mean arthur conan doyle and in fact you

2871
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:04,000
know he had his own touch with

2872
01:50:09,590 --> 01:50:07,040
spiritualism but i i just it's kind of

2873
01:50:12,390 --> 01:50:09,600
it's almost as though there's a part

2874
01:50:13,990 --> 01:50:12,400
we're not supposed to know do you get

2875
01:50:17,990 --> 01:50:14,000
that feeling

2876
01:50:21,270 --> 01:50:18,000
um i do i do um i don't know if it's if

2877
01:50:22,709 --> 01:50:21,280
it's a real thing but i get that sense

2878
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:22,719
absolutely yeah

2879
01:50:26,310 --> 01:50:25,040
um that there there is and this term is

2880
01:50:27,910 --> 01:50:26,320
thrown all over the place depending on

2881
01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:27,920
the subject matter but there's a sort of

2882
01:50:32,790 --> 01:50:29,280
veil

2883
01:50:35,270 --> 01:50:32,800
that is obscuring our our full vision

2884
01:50:37,590 --> 01:50:35,280
um or knowledge and um

2885
01:50:39,750 --> 01:50:37,600
yeah but i think sometimes people do tap

2886
01:50:41,750 --> 01:50:39,760
beyond that but to stay permanently

2887
01:50:44,149 --> 01:50:41,760
tapped into the all-knowing i don't

2888
01:50:46,310 --> 01:50:44,159
think we'd be human then so

2889
01:50:47,990 --> 01:50:46,320
um maybe there's a good reason for it if

2890
01:50:49,590 --> 01:50:48,000
that's true

2891
01:50:51,030 --> 01:50:49,600
interesting and what just went through

2892
01:50:52,629 --> 01:50:51,040
my mind is

2893
01:50:55,270 --> 01:50:52,639
the zen proverb i'm probably

2894
01:50:57,750 --> 01:50:55,280
paraphrasing but it's uh uh before

2895
01:51:00,629 --> 01:50:57,760
enlightenment chop would carry water

2896
01:51:04,310 --> 01:51:00,639
after enlightenment chop wood

2897
01:51:05,830 --> 01:51:04,320
water yeah yes yes um yeah well i

2898
01:51:07,830 --> 01:51:05,840
dropped something here

2899
01:51:10,550 --> 01:51:07,840
yeah i mean i often get that sense you

2900
01:51:12,790 --> 01:51:10,560
know there's there's the everyday living

2901
01:51:14,149 --> 01:51:12,800
um no matter what it is you can you know

2902
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:14,159
good or bad

2903
01:51:17,910 --> 01:51:16,239
you know and i think

2904
01:51:19,350 --> 01:51:17,920
i you know i can get

2905
01:51:21,510 --> 01:51:19,360
we can accomplish i'm stuttering here

2906
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,520
but we can i'm so excited

2907
01:51:25,990 --> 01:51:23,199
we can accomplish so many things as as

2908
01:51:27,590 --> 01:51:26,000
humans um but sometimes just the the

2909
01:51:30,390 --> 01:51:27,600
most simplest things are the most

2910
01:51:32,229 --> 01:51:30,400
spiritual things i mean

2911
01:51:35,750 --> 01:51:32,239
i just feel like the walk in the woods

2912
01:51:37,270 --> 01:51:35,760
is is probably more profound than um

2913
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:37,280
building a

2914
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:38,080
um

2915
01:51:40,950 --> 01:51:39,520
coffee table but maybe i'm wrong maybe

2916
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:40,960
the same anyway we've got a few seconds

2917
01:51:44,629 --> 01:51:42,800
left carol i want to thank you so much

2918
01:51:46,149 --> 01:51:44,639
for being on the inception radio network

2919
01:51:48,390 --> 01:51:46,159
on paranormal now

2920
01:51:50,550 --> 01:51:48,400
and um if anybody wants to find anything

2921
01:51:51,910 --> 01:51:50,560
else more about you besides going to

2922
01:51:53,430 --> 01:51:51,920
inception radio network where should

2923
01:51:55,750 --> 01:51:53,440
they go

2924
01:51:57,910 --> 01:51:55,760
that's just about my one and only place

2925
01:51:59,030 --> 01:51:57,920
that i hang out these days info wise and

2926
01:52:01,589 --> 01:51:59,040
i want to thank you while we have a

2927
01:52:03,030 --> 01:52:01,599
second here this has been a delight alan

2928
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:03,040
oh thank you carol i appreciate it it's

2929
01:52:07,270 --> 01:52:04,880
always a pleasure to speak with you

2930
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:07,280
anyway no matter on the error off there

2931
01:52:11,350 --> 01:52:08,880
and uh exactly

2932
01:52:13,350 --> 01:52:11,360
yeah so thank you again this is alan b

2933
01:52:16,149 --> 01:52:13,360
smith for power now mold now and i want

2934
01:52:19,589 --> 01:52:16,159
to thank also joe champion mj lucas and

2935
01:52:21,510 --> 01:52:19,599
bob tarmac for um making this station uh

2936
01:52:23,510 --> 01:52:21,520
nasty well the station too and this

2937
01:52:25,430 --> 01:52:23,520
program possible all right everybody

2938
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:25,440
thank you very much until next time live